+- Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website (http://dartslf.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Buses (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Local Bus Scene: North West and Wales (/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: Heating on buses (/showthread.php?tid=1079)
RE: Heating on buses - R879 HRF - 13/12/2015 18:23
The vast majority of buses saloon heating cannot be controlled by the driver. For example, most enviro models are thermostatically controlled however it is known to be faulty. Stagecoach in Wirral recently had a number of their 62 plate Enviro200s heaters looked at by adl. They've been working for a bit but its still hit and miss. Its the same with the new MMC buses at Stagecoach Wigan for route 34/X34. The driver has no control over the saloon heat, and upstairs blows cold on most of them! Wirrals Enviro300 golds however can be set to hot or cold by the driver, which is great, and so far theyre working.
Its not just an ADL issue though, wrightbus saloon roof heating is generally automatic, such as the wright scania solars, and its usually stuck on in summer and off in winter! Its an ongoing problem, and stagecoach are aware of the problems, especially with introduction of their twitter accounts etc. I seem to remember Laird Street had the same problem with 4400-4422 Enviro400s, and some gained driver heating controls, although still blew cold when set to hot on a number.
When the Hybrid B5s first arrived, saloons where cold and have since been modified so the driver can select the saloon blower temperature.
A lot of older buses, and VDL pulsars, with the heater pipes running along the saloon under the seats, have an on/off valve, and as mentioned some buses have the valve in the engine compartment. However most companies say drivers shouldn't go into the engine compartment, and saloon heating is the responsibility of engineering.
RE: Heating on buses - RedPanda - 13/12/2015 18:59
(13/12/2015 18:23)R879 HRF Wrote: The vast majority of buses saloon heating cannot be controlled by the driver. For example, most enviro models are thermostatically controlled however it is known to be faulty. Stagecoach in Wirral recently had a number of their 62 plate Enviro200s heaters looked at by adl. They've been working for a bit but its still hit and miss. Its the same with the new MMC buses at Stagecoach Wigan for route 34/X34. The driver has no control over the saloon heat, and upstairs blows cold on most of them! Wirrals Enviro300 golds however can be set to hot or cold by the driver, which is great, and so far theyre working.
Its not just an ADL issue though, wrightbus saloon roof heating is generally automatic, such as the wright scania solars, and its usually stuck on in summer and off in winter! Its an ongoing problem, and stagecoach are aware of the problems, especially with introduction of their twitter accounts etc. I seem to remember Laird Street had the same problem with 4400-4422 Enviro400s, and some gained driver heating controls, although still blew cold when set to hot on a number.
When the Hybrid B5s first arrived, saloons where cold and have since been modified so the driver can select the saloon blower temperature.
A lot of older buses, and VDL pulsars, with the heater pipes running along the saloon under the seats, have an on/off valve, and as mentioned some buses have the valve in the engine compartment. However most companies say drivers shouldn't go into the engine compartment, and saloon heating is the responsibility of engineering.
Then shouldn't the engineers set the valves to on in the winter, and when it starts getting warmer in the day to turn them off and turn them on again if they're operating when its getting colder. When its summer, have fewer buses set to on or all off for the night. Then slowly turn them back on. All it probably needs is an engineer/fitter to be at the main bus station. £2 odd is a lot of money for a cold bus journey but made less money by having a man and his spanner.
RE: Heating on buses - Mayneway - 13/12/2015 19:22
(13/12/2015 18:59)RedPanda Wrote: Then shouldn't the engineers set the valves to on in the winter, and when it starts getting warmer in the day to turn them off and turn them on again if they're operating when its getting colder. When its summer, have fewer buses set to on or all off for the night. Then slowly turn them back on. All it probably needs is an engineer/fitter to be at the main bus station. £2 odd is a lot of money for a cold bus journey but made less money by having a man and his spanner.
There are two problems with your comments.
Firstly when do engineeres turn it on? If you have a cold frosty night in October then a 3/4 week mild spell one thing engineering staff won't want to do is be constantly be turning heating on and off lol.
The other issue is from what I've been told that where stagecoach are concerned anyway, the engineeres only normally turn heating on/off while the bus is off the road for it's 3/4 week inspection so like this weekend, we've hit a very cold spell, they won't run round turning every buses heating on - its a gradule thing.
I think it was Brighton and hove who had some new buses delivered with automatic saloon heating/cooling that was constantly blowing warm air out during summer. Engineers claimed it was because passengers unsisted on having the windows open which confused the thermostats so they locked the windows closed - in the middle of summer lol
RE: Heating on buses - RedPanda - 13/12/2015 19:29
(13/12/2015 19:22)Mayneway Wrote: There are two problems with your comments.
Firstly when do engineeres turn it on? If you have a cold frosty night in October then a 3/4 week mild spell one thing engineering staff won't want to do is be constantly be turning heating on and off lol.
The other issue is from what I've been told that where stagecoach are concerned anyway, the engineeres only normally turn heating on/off while the bus is off the road for it's 3/4 week inspection so like this weekend, we've hit a very cold spell, they won't run round turning every buses heating on - its a gradule thing.
I think it was Brighton and hove who had some new buses delivered with automatic saloon heating/cooling that was constantly blowing warm air out during summer. Engineers claimed it was because passengers unsisted on having the windows open which confused the thermostats so they locked the windows closed - in the middle of summer lol
Then don't give the job to a qualified engineer but an apprentice. Its much cheaper than somebody on full pay and if they don't do it, then what the operator is say is they aren't committed in all weathers.
RE: Heating on buses - Raawwwrrr! - 13/12/2015 21:08
(13/12/2015 19:29)RedPanda Wrote: Then don't give the job to a qualified engineer but an apprentice. Its much cheaper than somebody on full pay and if they don't do it, then what the operator is say is they aren't committed in all weathers.That comment is totally naive.
The role of an apprentice is to receive higher education whilst in a working environment. They are not receiving an educational award for turning the heating on and off solely, that would give them no experience what so ever. The idea behind an apprenticeship is that they would do all aspects of engineering (and in a bus environment possibly bodywork and electrical too). You are unable to sack your apprentice on the basis of slander regarding their working habits and the weather
RE: Heating on buses - Mayneway - 13/12/2015 21:19
(13/12/2015 21:08)Raawwwrrr! Wrote: That comment is totally naive.
The role of an apprentice is to receive higher education whilst in a working environment. They are not receiving an educational award for turning the heating on and off solely, that would give them no experience what so ever. The idea behind an apprenticeship is that they would do all aspects of engineering (and in a bus environment possibly bodywork and electrical too). You are unable to sack your apprentice on the basis of slander regarding their working habits and the weather
Agreed.
I think a lot of school leaving teenagers would be extremely happy to be taken on by one of the big firms as an apprentice of some sort and in the context of passengers freezing to death on buses, it dosen't matter if cheif engineer, apprentice, cleaner or tea boy turns the heating on as long as it gets done
)
RE: Heating on buses - RedPanda - 13/12/2015 21:39
(13/12/2015 21:19)Mayneway Wrote: Agreed.
I think a lot of school leaving teenagers would be extremely happy to be taken on by one of the big firms as an apprentice of some sort and in the context of passengers freezing to death on buses, it dosen't matter if cheif engineer, apprentice, cleaner or tea boy turns the heating on as long as it gets done
With regards to Mayneway's post 13 he says that drivers aren't meant to go into the engine bay, if it was a cleaner or the tea boy or a jack the lad, health and safety would poke their noses in. Apprentices are cheaper and they would learn where x, y and z are on different engines. They could also try and get a broken down bus going again when they have enough experience under their belt.
It would save money on not having the tow truck.
RE: Heating on buses - MPTE1955 - 13/12/2015 21:52
That's hardly fair on engineers that go out to buses, it is like saying that they just turn up and say tow the bus without doing anything. In my experience a fitter will always try to fix the bus where it is and only call for it be towed back if absolutely necessary. As for apprentices, well of course they will learn on the job as that is the point of an apprenticeship but to send one out alone to fix a broken down bus would be ridiculous as would employing them just to sort out the heating on a bus by flicking a switch under the bonnet.
RE: Heating on buses - Barney - 13/12/2015 22:41
[quote='Mayneway' pid='83892' dateline='1450034523']
There are two problems with your comments.
Firstly when do engineeres turn it on? If you have a cold frosty night in October then a 3/4 week mild spell one thing engineering staff won't want to do is be constantly be turning heating on and off lol.
That's a fair point but when I started this thread this morning it was the 13th of December and I think that it is safe to say that there won't be a heat-wave between now and next April. Therefore, is it not unreasonable to expect buses to have heating switched on for the next three months?
Countries with much harsher winters than ours seem capable of operating buses with working heaters.
RE: Heating on buses - Raawwwrrr! - 13/12/2015 22:42
It doesn't matter in regards to whether they are cheaper or not, they are there to do the exact same job as the resident mechanics (in time). Just because someone is an apprentice does not mean they should be seen as "lower" compared to the other staff.
Tow-trucks are always a last resort and usually called out when the problem is unreachable, unfixable, unmovable, or involved in a collision.