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RE: Photography ban...? - Mayneway - 06/03/2016 11:44
Obviously there's a level of common sense and if your going to stand in or directly outside a bus station there's no harm in letting the manager/supervisor know. There normally very obliging when they know what's going on.
From a legal point of view unless the police have very good grounds to stop and question you then try shouldn't do. It's not a crime or arrestable offence to take photos of buses. A police officer has no right to ask to see the photos your taking and they certainly carnt demand that photos are deleted etc.
If ever that occurres simply ask the PC/PCSO to speak to thier inspector who will hopefully clarify things to the other zealous officers.
'Preventing terrorism' is no grounds to try and stop innocent people enjoying thier hobby.
RE: Photography ban...? - 326VFM - 06/03/2016 12:00
(06/03/2016 08:01)Valandil Wrote: I've been stopped by a plain clothes police officer before for photographing a bus.
He demanded that I show him the photograph and other photographs of buses I'd taken recently, presumably to show that I am an enthusiast and wasn't just interested in that particular bus.
He took my name and address then followed me in his car (I was on foot).
I don't know why he needed my name and address, but suspect I'm on some kind of database for something now.
I have thought many times about complaining or going to a police help desk to ask if the police officer was entitled to do all of this, but have never done so for fear of reigniting the whole issue.
By the way, this wasn't in Merseyside but was elsewhere in the North West.
EDIT: I should also clarify that this wasn't at a bus station and was just on a normal road.
Same as me as well but similar the same, so last Olympic 2012 at West Ham, London. I was outside at Stagecoach West Ham Depot for Olympic shuttle buses and coaches in and out the of depot. One of enthusiast told me don't use photograph on the stagecoach private road, better move another side use public footpath won't harm, and he said to me watch out with security or policemen didn't like it bus photos. So he went off about 15 mins later the two policemen said to me what are you doing here so I show him photo of buses and coaches that all, so he put my name and address down for no reason. So police man said to me you move away from here. I walking down the road few mins away found loads of enthusiasts no trouble at all. But good to see plenty of buses and coaches in and out. Nothing happens after that but not too close, better bit keeping away from them.
Hope this helps for everyone.
RE: Photography ban...? - SK15 GZG - 06/03/2016 12:24
(06/03/2016 06:44)wirralbus Wrote: At Birkenhead Bus Station the roadway in front of Bus Stops 1 to 4 is actually a public highway , it is a public highway because it needs to serve the service roads around the Birkenhead Market , the rest is private land , its unfortunately up to them how they adminster it .
There aren't any signs to say that photography isn't permitted so how is anybody supposed to know whether they're allowed to take photographs or not?
RE: Photography ban...? - wirralbus - 06/03/2016 12:29
Are Bus stations technically private land on which buses are allowed to pick up and drop off passengers , same goes for railway stations .
RE: Photography ban...? - SK15 GZG - 06/03/2016 14:48
(06/03/2016 12:29)wirralbus Wrote: Are Bus stations technically private land on which buses are allowed to pick up and drop off passengers , same goes for railway stations .
The way I've read this post it's contradictory - are you saying they're on private land or are you asking if they're on private land?
My point is that if photography isn't allowed without prior permission then it should be clearly indicated where possible. If enthusiasts are approached about needing permission to take photographs of buses/trains in a bus/train station then so should people who are taking "selfies" because that is also photography
RE: Photography ban...? - Mayneway - 06/03/2016 17:37
(06/03/2016 14:48)SL64 JDZ Wrote: The way I've read this post it's contradictory - are you saying they're on private land or are you asking if they're on private land?
My point is that if photography isn't allowed without prior permission then it should be clearly indicated where possible. If enthusiasts are approached about needing permission to take photographs of buses/trains in a bus/train station then so should people who are taking "selfies" because that is also photography
Out of interest has anyone ever approached Merseytravel or TFGM and asked what thier feelings are about enthusiasts taking photos from within thier bus stations - surly if it's a 'sorry no' then some kind of explanation as to why would suffice, but as you rightly say if it's a major issue then perhaps signs should be put up stating it.
I think generally a lot of people don't understand bus/train/tram enthusiasts whether it be filming, taking photos or simply jotting down fleet numbers some people just assume your up to no good, which is quite sad given that we carnt move for being watched by CCTV cameras yet when someone's innocently taking photos of buses their either planning an act of terrorism or a pervet taking photos of school buses.
RE: Photography ban...? - RedPanda - 06/03/2016 19:08
(06/03/2016 17:55)Dentonian Wrote: I believe TFGM's official policy is indeed to contact them first - even if upon arrival. Trouble is;
1. As someone has already said, there is no signage to explain this, unlike various other signs clearly stating that smoking *in* the bus station is a criminal offence, and warning that smoking in extenal parts of the bus station, along with cycling are also prohibited (under bye-laws).
2. There is rarely any visible TFGM prescence, especially on the east side of the conurbation.
I, personally, no longer take photos, and rarely have done withing GM in the past. However, I do recall a few years ago being in Wigan Bus Station, when someone else was approached for taking photos and asked to leave the Bus Station, whilst yards away, someone was smoking at the entrance to shelters.
Remember, Piccadilly "Bus Station" is not TFGM property, so I think the basic law of the land applies, which does NOT prohibit taking photographs of public transport.
Perhaps you could get away with it if you asked to see where it says 'no photography of any sort' in their policies book. If they can't provide the book, then why should you stop. As said in a previous post by SL64 JDZ that taking selfies may be considered as a hobby so why should we stop doing something we like doing.
Just remember though you may be arrested if you take pictures at school chucking out time as bus stations will become rather full of kids.
Terrorism on the other hand, could be CCTV that the criminals are looking for. Where would be a good place to leave a bag or hang around and not be suspected.
I've never been questioned but I do tend to stay away from cameras and staff.
RE: Photography ban...? - Lynx - 06/03/2016 19:43
Taking photographs in a public place is not a criminal offence and is not illegal/unlawful because it is not governed by common law or statute law. Taking photos on private land is again neither illegal or unlawful and the police have no jurisdiction to act in private matters unless common law is broken. A private land owner can however bring about a private prosecution, but this would cost many thousands of pounds.
Bus stations belonging to PTEs are public land as the money they are provided with comes from central government which therefore makes any bus station operated by them public ground.
Private security or staff working at PTE bus stations have absolutely no authority to prevent you from filming and as long as you do not become aggressive or violent, and they certainly do not have any right to remove you. The same applies to police officers, who up until the point that they suspect your actions are unlawful/illegal have no jurisdiction.
RE: Photography ban...? - Lynx - 06/03/2016 22:30
(06/03/2016 20:12)Dentonian Wrote: Some, not all, capital costs come from Central Government. ALL the running costs come from local sources eg. Council Tax payers or the Bus Operators. Whilst the extent of enforcement might be subject to question, a Bus Station is NOT public ground.
I see your point, but neither could it be described as private land as it is essentially funded by the taxpayer with investment from other external companies e.g bus operators like you say.
RE: Photography ban...? - Bevan Price - 06/03/2016 22:33
I was once asked not to take photos in Wigan Bus Station, but told I could seek a permit to take photos on a prearranged fixed date. However there, and at many other bus stations, I find that the best location to take photos is from a public footpath outside the bus station. Bus stations themselves often have a lot of "clutter" that distracts from the bus photo. At Huyton, I prefer the public footpath between the car park & the bus station as a location for taking photos.
Technically, the operator of a bus (or railway) station can ask you not to take photos, and ask you to leave if you refuse - even if they do not actually own the land, they can be regarded as a tenant / custodian of the site, and can set rules for the site.
Note that at railway stations, you are breaking the law if you refuse to leave when asked by an authorised person. I am not sure of the legal status of bus stations, but they are probably covered by laws dealing with trespass, but it is probably wise to stop taking photos if requeated.
I was also once asked by a bus driver about taking photos - I think for some reason, he might have been concerned about being recognised. However, when I showed him that a driver inside a bus was barely visible, (in photos exposed to show the bus exterior), he became a bit more relaxed.