Greater Manchester Service Changes

[M60lad]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes
Just pure guesswork here but there still isn't anything saying this new service will serve Wilmslow, I mean it could sort of run Express/Limited Stop from Macclesfield-Manchester Airport running straight via A34 and Manchester Airport Relief Road.

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(30/07/2021 05:42)M60lad Wrote:  Just pure guesswork here but there still isn't anything saying this new service will serve Wilmslow, I mean it could sort of run Express/Limited Stop from Macclesfield-Manchester Airport running straight via A34 and Manchester Airport Relief Road.

Going by google there not much in it to call at Wilmslow so it unlikely they would jump it as would offer them a bus to Manchester.

[KXW212]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(29/07/2021 19:43)knutstransport Wrote:  There's apparently a law which states councils can't use money to subside services if there's a competing commercial service. Both Cheshire West and Cheshire East councils have withdrawn subsided routes due to inferior commercial services being registered. TfGM seem to interpret the same law differently and have had evening contracted services with a first journey before the last commercial journey.

The current 130 is being funded on a trial basis. It would be much cheaper to fund a Handforth to Alderley Edge shuttle, with peak time extensions to Macc via Alderley Park if needed.

The thing to note is even if CEC do nothing they might find D&G come to them saying revenue has dropped on the 130 due to the X1 and they can't continue to run it at the same frequency for the same subsidy.

While some people don't want to hear it some of the 130 bus users only choose the bus over a more frequent, faster train because the government gives them a free bus pass. These are the same people who think the bus should continue to Manchester as they want to get to Manchester for free, not because they can't get on a train at Alderley Edge/Wilmslow/Handforth. I'm sure there must also be people who live in Alderley Edge who think why do the buses go to Handforth and Wilmslow when I can get the train there but they don't go to Prestbury, Knutsford or Altrincham.

I doubt Manchester is somewhere any bus passenger would want to go from anywhere along the current 130 corridor. It just takes too long. East Didsbury was always the sensible place to terminate it with a host of onward connection facilities available, pass holder or not. What is often forgotten is not everybody lives near a rail station, intermediate passengers do actually matter and not everyone is a commuter. The residents of Colshaw Farm are a case in point, where shoppers going to/from Handforth make the 130 fairly busy.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(30/07/2021 05:42)M60lad Wrote:  Just pure guesswork here but there still isn't anything saying this new service will serve Wilmslow, I mean it could sort of run Express/Limited Stop from Macclesfield-Manchester Airport running straight via A34 and Manchester Airport Relief Road.

The TfGM notes reveal the X57 will be extended to the airport viewing park and then it will change to an X1 service. I would have thought if the plan is to use the Airport relief road that it would be sensible to go down Princess Park Way, then the M56 to Junction 6 to serve the viewing park, then to go on to the station and the airport relief road.

I think to get from the viewing park to the relief road you'd have to Wilmslow Road, head towards Altrincham, then either turn down Runger Lane or go on to the M56 for one junction northbound (effectively back to the station), which is the reason why the old 200 service from Styal finished at the viewing park, not the airport station.

Although, you correct in that the TfGM notes don't specifically mention Wilmslow. I certainly wouldn't expect the X1 to do like the 88 and to serve any stop on Altrincham Road, Bank Square, the station and the Coach & Four.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(30/07/2021 08:23)KXW212 Wrote:  I doubt Manchester is somewhere any bus passenger would want to go from anywhere along the current 130 corridor. It just takes too long. East Didsbury was always the sensible place to terminate it with a host of onward connection facilities available, pass holder or not.

When the 130 went to Piccadilly Gardens there were pass holders who went to central Manchester, despite the long journey time. It showed up when Arriva changed the timetable so it was half-hourly Manchester to Colshaw Farm with alternate buses continuing to Manchester and then there were pensioners not wanting the Colshaw Farm bus because it didn't go to Manchester.

Same with the 387 - it was very slow from Wilmslow to Stockport compared to the train but pass holders used it because it meant a free journey and they weren't in a rush.

Quote:What is often forgotten is not everybody lives near a rail station, intermediate passengers do actually matter and not everyone is a commuter. The residents of Colshaw Farm are a case in point, where shoppers going to/from Handforth make the 130 fairly busy.

If anything the Cheshire East contracts ignore the commuters and favour the pass holders making shopping trips. Normally bus services are more frequent at peak times than at off-peak times but Cheshire East don't want to put on an extra vehicle at peak times to allow for heavier traffic and in many cases take a bus off a normal service in the morning peak as a cheap way of providing a school service.

There's people in Wilmslow who don't use the 88/130/T2 for shopping but instead use the pre-bookable Flexilink service because even when you provide a bus which goes quite close to someone's house it doesn't mean they can carry their shopping from the bus stop to their house. I understand anyone over 80 or with a disability is allowed to use that service, as well as anyone not living near a bus stop.

With Colshaw Farm being a large area of social housing there should be no doubt that it needs a bus service of some description.

[SF07]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes
Variation for Stagecoach's 150 service has been submitted for the 5th September, which states "some journeys extended", which might suggest that the route between Gorton and Hyde might be restored, after being curtailed due to roadworks on Hyde Road.

PC0003681/611 Registered
GREATER MANCHESTER BUSES SOUTH LTD
Route: intu Trafford Centre to Hyde
Service number: 150 (150)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 05 Sep 2021
Timetables revised and some journeys extended.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes
Regarding the 130 it is being operated on a 12 month contract from 11 April 2021. The subsidy is currently £80,000 with £40,000 of it coming from Cheshire East Council and the rest coming from town and parish councils. This could create a tricky situation if there's any route revisions as the result of the X1 launching.

[dounowhoiam]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes
From my personal experience of the 130, it has picked up the patronage to hold itself well between the Handforth - Macclesfield section.
With many frequent buses (such as the 11, 101 and 43) running between Wythenshawe Hospital, Interchange and the Airport (and a direct hourly 18 service) if any changes are made to save costs it should be cut to just the Airport and Macclesfield with the savings transferred to a Saturday service being introduced.
Weekend travel on public transport is increasing more than commuter travel (and sadly the 130 in GM hasn't been timed well for commuter use), which does open up travel not just for concessionary travel but also paying customers like myself.
I've used the X57 to Sheffield commute, but it's 2 hourly frequency and higher expense fare from Manchester / Airport (rather than Glossop where I can still use System One on other buses to there) doesn't make it a viable frequent method to travel instead of what is currently on offer.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(02/08/2021 22:45)dounowhoiam Wrote:  From my personal experience of the 130, it has picked up the patronage to hold itself well between the Handforth - Macclesfield section.

With regards to viability it's not just the number of passengers - pass holders and children generate less revenue than passengers paying full adult fare. While someone holding a weekly season and commuting from Wilmslow to Macclesfield 5 times a week, would generate less revenue than 10 job seekers all making one return journey per fortnight to the job centre.

I hope passenger numbers have improved since April, with restrictions being lifted. On Saturday afternoon I saw an 88 bus drop off 8 passengers at an unmarked bus stop in Knutsford, during lockdown the bus wouldn't have even had 8 passengers on board.

Quote:With many frequent buses (such as the 11, 101 and 43) running between Wythenshawe Hospital, Interchange and the Airport (and a direct hourly 18 service) if any changes are made to save costs it should be cut to just the Airport and Macclesfield with the savings transferred to a Saturday service being introduced.

Not sure what you mean about Saturday service being introduced, do you mean the existing Macclesfield-Handforth service being extended to Wythenshawe on Saturdays too? I would have thought there would be less demand for Wythenshawe on Saturdays - fewer hospital appointments and the job centre being closed.

The imminent question is whether the 130 will change so that it doesn't compete with the new X1 between Macclesfield and Manchester via the airport, given that councils can't legally use taxpayers money to subside a bus service with competes with a commercial one. With various town and parish councils providing money towards the service it might be changing the route would upset one town or parish council, who could then withdraw their share of funding, which then puts the whole route up for review. If I was a local councillor for Handforth then I would certainly not see Handforth as an acceptable place to terminate Cheshire bus services such as the 130 and to not have them making connections to Greater Manchester services such as the 42C.

If the 130 remains as it is then the question next year will a new contract be awarded and what form does it take.

Quote:Weekend travel on public transport is increasing more than commuter travel (and sadly the 130 in GM hasn't been timed well for commuter use), which does open up travel not just for concessionary travel but also paying customers like myself.

I think one of the issues with leisure travel generally is it can be weather dependent.

Quote:I've used the X57 to Sheffield commute, but it's 2 hourly frequency and higher expense fare from Manchester / Airport (rather than Glossop where I can still use System One on other buses to there) doesn't make it a viable frequent method to travel instead of what is currently on offer.

They appear to be trying to offer a low cost alternative to trains. Offering railcard discounts on bus tickets is unusual, as is a bus operator partnering with a holiday company selling package holidays from Manchester Airport. The buses from Manchester Airport generally tend to focus more on the commuter market with it being TPE who try to market the holiday makers with things like flexible Advances, which can be used on the next train if your flight is delayed.

[dounowhoiam]

RE: Greater Manchester Service Changes

(03/08/2021 08:19)knutstransport Wrote:  With regards to viability it's not just the number of passengers - pass holders and children generate less revenue than passengers paying full adult fare. While someone holding a weekly season and commuting from Wilmslow to Macclesfield 5 times a week, would generate less revenue than 10 job seekers all making one return journey per fortnight to the job centre.

Quote:Not sure what you mean about Saturday service being introduced, do you mean the existing Macclesfield-Handforth service being extended to Wythenshawe on Saturdays too? I would have thought there would be less demand for Wythenshawe on Saturdays - fewer hospital appointments and the job centre being closed.

It's not so much the extension into Wythenshawe Interchange / Hospital, though if Jobcentre travel is the main target then it should be travelling to the Interchange on Saturday as well as it's open on that day. It could save a little bit of time going directly via Oatlands Road as well.

If full paying passengers (like myself) are the main goal having a Saturday service from within GM (such as the Airport) allows regular GM commuters (bus / tram / train) to travel to Cheshire purchasing the D&G day tickets.

Quote:The imminent question is whether the 130 will change so that it doesn't compete with the new X1 between Macclesfield and Manchester via the airport, given that councils can't legally use taxpayers money to subside a bus service with competes with a commercial one. With various town and parish councils providing money towards the service it might be changing the route would upset one town or parish council, who could then withdraw their share of funding, which then puts the whole route up for review. If I was a local councillor for Handforth then I would certainly not see Handforth as an acceptable place to terminate Cheshire bus services such as the 130 and to not have them making connections to Greater Manchester services such as the 42C.

The experience with the Hulleys service is that it shouldn't be considered a direct competitor with 130 as it will likely be a limited stop (similar to how the X57 is between Glossop and Manchester Airport). Areas like Handforth and Alderley Edge don't get served by other normal bus services where I have seen the patronage board and alight in both directions.

The 42C is an hourly service, whereas the Airport gives multiple transport methods that link different areas of Greater Manchester with facilities to support those travelling on public transport. D&G do run a service that links Handforth Dean with Wilmslow and Knutsford four days a week.

A potential theory I could surmise is that when the 42C tender expires, D&G extend the 130 to serve Handforth Dean using the Relief Road and either continue the 42C route towards East Didsbury or resume the normal route back toward the Airport (should the other Stagecoach buses in this area provide an adequate replacement for the unique area the 42C directly serves).