D&G Bus

[NOA437X]

RE: D&G Bus

(12/08/2021 18:20)knutstransport Wrote:  New 82 timetable is on the D&G site. Also mentioned that Derbyshire CC contracted 108 will be truncated and 109 withdrawn due to Hulleys X1 service starting

108/109 are/were Staffordshire CC funded, not Derbyshire. X1 pretty much covers the whole 109 other than Rudyard, the revised 108 covers that and other areas the X1 isn’t serving. Having seen the X1 registration it is routed via Alderley Edge but doesn’t go via Wilmslow town centre. Not sure on stopping arrangements though between Macc and Manchester Airport however.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(12/08/2021 18:20)knutstransport Wrote:  New 82 timetable is on the D&G site. Also mentioned that Derbyshire CC contracted 108 will be truncated and 109 withdrawn due to Hulleys X1 service starting

If the college 82 off Chester gets a decent bus, that will be one beast of a ride. Fast from Tarvin to John Denes. That sounds like fun.

(12/08/2021 20:52)NOA437X Wrote:  108/109 are/were Staffordshire CC funded, not Derbyshire. X1 pretty much covers the whole 109 other than Rudyard, the revised 108 covers that and other areas the X1 isn’t serving. Having seen the X1 registration it is routed via Alderley Edge but doesn’t go via Wilmslow town centre. Not sure on stopping arrangements though between Macc and Manchester Airport however.

The X1 service will be very interesting. Missing out Wilmslow could jeopardise a good amount of patronage. That said if it's non stop from Macc, it won't matter as much. If it's a local stopping though and then doesn't call at Wilmslow, that would be a poor call. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

IT makes sense ridding the 108/109 in theri current form I guess as you say, it does cover the majority of the area. The only thing that I think could/should be done differently is make the 108 go the same way around, all day. What a faff making a route go anti clockwise in the morning then clockwise in the afternoon. Not very simple for passengers.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(13/08/2021 06:28)iMarkeh Wrote:  If the college 82 off Chester gets a decent bus, that will be one beast of a ride. Fast from Tarvin to John Denes. That sounds like fun.

Looks like someone's applied some common sense so the loadings are split between two buses without one vehicle running just ahead of a duplicate. I guess they would normally be Versas given the large Enviros aren't ideal for the hills and the Versas seem to perform well on the route.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(12/08/2021 20:52)NOA437X Wrote:  Having seen the X1 registration it is routed via Alderley Edge but doesn’t go via Wilmslow town centre. Not sure on stopping arrangements though between Macc and Manchester Airport however.

Do you mean Alderley Edge is listed as a via point or a timing point and Wilmslow is not, or that you've seen the route and it skips Wilmslow?

I can't see a sensible route from Alderley Edge to Manchester Airport Viewing Park (where supposedly it will change to X57) which avoids Wilmslow altogether. An express bus skipping Bank Square wouldn't be strange, as it would be quicker to use the Coach & Four stop but avoiding Wilmslow altogether would be.

[NOA437X]

RE: D&G Bus

(13/08/2021 12:14)knutstransport Wrote:  Do you mean Alderley Edge is listed as a via point or a timing point and Wilmslow is not, or that you've seen the route and it skips Wilmslow?

I can't see a sensible route from Alderley Edge to Manchester Airport Viewing Park (where supposedly it will change to X57) which avoids Wilmslow altogether. An express bus skipping Bank Square wouldn't be strange, as it would be quicker to use the Coach & Four stop but avoiding Wilmslow altogether would be.

Neither Alderley Edge or Wilmslow are timing points, Alderley Edge is shown on the route however but Wilmslow town centre isn’t on the route plan. Can’t remember the roads and don’t know the area I’m afraid. Not clear if the section from Macc to the Airport is limited stop or not.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(13/08/2021 12:01)knutstransport Wrote:  Looks like someone's applied some common sense so the loadings are split between two buses without one vehicle running just ahead of a duplicate. I guess they would normally be Versas given the large Enviros aren't ideal for the hills and the Versas seem to perform well on the route.

Sense or just made things more confusing? That is the difference. Which one is best, we are yet to see I guess. Arriva did it and it seemed to go ok for them but will it work for D&G? I think the college might be all that is keeping the 82 going. Been on a few trips and not seen many people onboard most trips. Not sure if they have killed it off really changing it every 30 seconds and giving it silly amounts of layover. Rudheath might pick up slightly though from September as D&G are going 5 mins ahead of Arriva (3 mins ahead from Rudheath).

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(14/08/2021 00:56)iMarkeh Wrote:  Sense or just made things more confusing? That is the difference. Which one is best, we are yet to see I guess. Arriva did it and it seemed to go ok for them but will it work for D&G?

I guess the year 13 students will find it confusing because it's different to the last academic year but the year 12s won't be used to anything yet.

The difference with D&G to both Arriva and GHA is they are only using single deckers and don't have a decker to use on the run which will generate the most passengers.

Quote:I think the college might be all that is keeping the 82 going. Been on a few trips and not seen many people onboard most trips. Not sure if they have killed it off really changing it every 30 seconds and giving it silly amounts of layover. Rudheath might pick up slightly though from September as D&G are going 5 mins ahead of Arriva (3 mins ahead from Rudheath).

In the Northwich area there's a lot of bus journeys made between Greenbank/Castle and the town centre, especially going away from town where people where people may have shopping and it's the uphill direction. However, most peopl use the frequent Arriva 1 service, not the D&G 82 or WOB 48 and even if the fares are the same and they are only buying a single it's still easier to just go to the stand where the 1s depart from. The pass holders going towards town will likely wave down the first bus which appears but that won't be a huge revenue stream.

You have to question is who D&G are targeting with the Rudheath extensions. It's no use for someone from Sandiway or Kelsall working at Gadbrook Park. Even if the first Rudheath arrival was an hour earlier it would be no good for the early shifts at Roberts Bakery and the Morrisons warehouse, hence why the Arriva service starts so early. Are they hoping some pass holders will use it for a free leisure trip to Chester on the bus, instead of paying for a train ticket? But then surely they would think the 10 minute layover in Northwich would be off putting for those passengers.

I have noticed, in the past on Wednesdays, a lot of college pupils seem to do a half day and walk across the locks and up Robert Street/Darwin Street to the Blue Barrel pub on Chester Road in time for the bus at around 13:25. That possibly relates to those on vocational courses not doing all their hours at the college campus but you'd think if the college pupils were the main revenue D&G would have noticed that and made a more suitable accommodation in their timetabling.

Last academic year D&G may have got some of Northern's usual passengers as well given Northern were very slow to reinstate the 08:02 Chester to Manchester train and some school pupils relied on that train for getting to Greenbank for around 08:30.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(14/08/2021 08:45)knutstransport Wrote:  I guess the year 13 students will find it confusing because it's different to the last academic year but the year 12s won't be used to anything yet.

The difference with D&G to both Arriva and GHA is they are only using single deckers and don't have a decker to use on the run which will generate the most passengers.


In the Northwich area there's a lot of bus journeys made between Greenbank/Castle and the town centre, especially going away from town where people where people may have shopping and it's the uphill direction. However, most peopl use the frequent Arriva 1 service, not the D&G 82 or WOB 48 and even if the fares are the same and they are only buying a single it's still easier to just go to the stand where the 1s depart from. The pass holders going towards town will likely wave down the first bus which appears but that won't be a huge revenue stream.

You have to question is who D&G are targeting with the Rudheath extensions. It's no use for someone from Sandiway or Kelsall working at Gadbrook Park. Even if the first Rudheath arrival was an hour earlier it would be no good for the early shifts at Roberts Bakery and the Morrisons warehouse, hence why the Arriva service starts so early. Are they hoping some pass holders will use it for a free leisure trip to Chester on the bus, instead of paying for a train ticket? But then surely they would think the 10 minute layover in Northwich would be off putting for those passengers.

I have noticed, in the past on Wednesdays, a lot of college pupils seem to do a half day and walk across the locks and up Navigation Road to the Blue Barrel pub on Chester Road in time for the bus at around 13:25. That possibly relates to those on vocational courses not doing all their hours at the college campus but you'd think if the college pupils were the main revenue D&G would have noticed that and made a more suitable accommodation in their timetabling.

Last academic year D&G may have got some of Northern's usual passengers as well given Northern were very slow to reinstate the 08:02 Chester to Manchester train and some school pupils relied on that train for getting to Greenbank for around 08:30.

I meant more confusing for normal passengers who now have a random route variation and it means that the first bus into Northwich is now 10 minutes later arriving.

I don't think deckers have much, if any, relevance to the specific situation. Either way the college wants serving.


Rudheath extensions, honestly, I don't think there is a target market. I think the aim is literally to make use of a bus else it will be sat around for 40 minutes. They won't encourage anyone onto the bus though when it has so much padding and for anyone who would want to travel 'through' Northwich, you have a 10 minute layover. I think D&G are following Arriva now doing silly things knowing full well they won't be used and putting in zero effort to get anyone onboard. There are GHA may not have been the best firm but they did the 82s well and they got used. Even did leaflets in the end for them. Regular, fast buses. None of this, sitting around forever at each timing point lark. None of this, no social media, no promotions, worse than bare basic website.

As for College Wednesdays, that is a difficult one. You can't mess the route up just on a Wednesday. You might as well call time on the Rudheath extension as no one will use it then if you have such a random timetable. Ideally, you would instead extend the 82 to Moulton or something on the 37A so then you are always going past the college, whatever time they finish, they can get the bus.


Your point on D&G gaining passengers, I think that ship has sailed. I am willing to go as far as to say that it is now only the college keeping the 82 going and some passing trade from Arriva from Tarvin. The bus is never busy when I see it (at various times of day). I think they have well and truely killed the 82. To think how well GHA did and all that lost because of 2 dismal bus operators who don't know how to run a proper service. Shame really and D&G know that they dont need to improve because prats will keep giving them contracts just because they are cheaper than Arriva.


Rant over.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(14/08/2021 10:42)iMarkeh Wrote:  Rudheath extensions, honestly, I don't think there is a target market. I think the aim is literally to make use of a bus else it will be sat around for 40 minutes.

I've never got why Rudheath over Wincham/Lostock Gralam. The latter would make driver changeovers easier and there isn't currently a regular consistent bus that way. WOB's services alternate between going via Wincham and going via Barnton, while the limited 89 doesn't interwork with the CAT9. As D&G already operate the 89, an 82 extension to Wincham/Lostock Gralam would mean also mean they are the main operator on that route, which would mean there are more likely to sell returns and weekly tickets.

They've also had issues with buses going out to Rudheath getting stuck trying to get around parked cars.

Quote:As for College Wednesdays, that is a difficult one. You can't mess the route up just on a Wednesday. You might as well call time on the Rudheath extension as no one will use it then if you have such a random timetable. Ideally, you would instead extend the 82 to Moulton or something on the 37A so then you are always going past the college, whatever time they finish, they can get the bus.

It only takes around 5 minutes to get from Watling Street to John Deanes at off-peak times. There's enough padding for the existing service to do Rudheath-John Deanes-Watling Street-Hartford on Wednesdays only. Most people travelling to Northwich alight at or before Memorial Hall anyway, as it's quicker to get off there and cross the road, then to wait for the bus to drive around in a circle, going through 3 sets of traffic lights.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
Seems to be something affecting buses running via Chelford today with some very late services and one diverting via Wilmslow to get between Broken Cross and Knutsford. I don't think the driver who did that realised that you can turn directly on to the B5085 from Alderley Edge at Brook Lane and don't need to up to Wilmslow and on to the B5086 to connect to it. If it was in the other direction it might make sense as the right turn can be difficult from the B5085 towards Alderley Edge village.