First Group Speculation

[Penny Return]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 19:44)motormayhem Wrote:  arriva are experienced in both in my opinion,even more so being under DB as they are big on trains are they not.

They are in Europe but are not too interested in thier British operation

[wirralbus]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 19:44)motormayhem Wrote:  arriva are experienced in both in my opinion,even more so being under DB as they are big on trains are they not.

I agree otherwise they would not have taken over Grand Central the open access operator

[wirralbus]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 20:01)Penny Return Wrote:  

(31/08/2012 19:44)motormayhem Wrote:  arriva are experienced in both in my opinion,even more so being under DB as they are big on trains are they not.

They are in Europe but are not too interested in thier British operation

They have a mixed bag here in Britain , but they have decided for one reason not to use the DB name in this country and the red livery on there passenger trains and that is that people dont want to see a german name on the side of there train , it could start a backlash , hence using the Arriva name for all passenger operations outside of Germany .

[P528LND]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 19:21)Penny Return Wrote:  First are a train company that runs buses

I don't know where you've got that from, since First started out a bus company and only became interested in Rail Franchising after they got big :P

(30/08/2012 21:28)mbonwick Wrote:  Not really. The 50 was extended because there is a strong business case for it, and Stagecoach Manchester have had a lot of feedback from passengers wanting a through service.
TfGM are only too happy for it to happen as well as its one less route for them to subsidise.

Nothing to Stagecoach getting massively expansionist, just adapting to service new markets as they've developed.

Yes indeed you are correct, however we will see what happens in the near future. I firmly believe that Stagecoach are seeing weaknesses in First's operations and are now seeing it's the perfect time to act against them. The new and improved 76 service is one such example of fighting, and also as I said before, possibly the 50.

[plannerman]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 21:16)P528LND Wrote:  I don't know where you've got that from, since First started out a bus company and only became interested in Rail Franchising after they got big :P

I believe that was a direct quote from Moir Lockhead, who was trying to alter the company's image with investors.

[SNL 824]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 19:21)Penny Return Wrote:  Arriva are a bus company that runs trains

First are a train company that runs buses

Looking at Rock Ferry/Chester it certainly shows

Well let's not forget that First originated from a merger of Badgerline and Grampian and they do buses all over the world - their first rail venture was probably around 2004. IMO there not great at either. The one service I think they do really well anywhere is the rental car shuttle at Houston IAH airport. Frequent service, reliable vehicles and friendly drivers. Otherwise ..... I guess RF is worse than most.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation
First had rail franchises from rail privatisation in the mid 90's with Great Western and North Western.

[mbonwick]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation
Given their ownership by DB now, I would say Arriva are a railway company running buses really.

Similarly, First definitely started out as a bus company running trains, but now they're definitely better on the rails and its clear that this is where their future focus is, so they're moving to a rail company running buses.

Of course, the future is irrelevant really if they do get the West Coast franchise and lose money - Standard and Poor's have said they will downrate First's credit rating to "Junk" if this happens, effectively bankrupting the company.

[Metroline1511]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation

(31/08/2012 21:44)SNL 824 Wrote:  Well let's not forget that First originated from a merger of Badgerline and Grampian and they do buses all over the world - their first rail venture was probably around 2004. IMO there not great at either. The one service I think they do really well anywhere is the rental car shuttle at Houston IAH airport. Frequent service, reliable vehicles and friendly drivers. Otherwise ..... I guess RF is worse than most.

First did actually win Great Eastern in 1997. They were a minority shareholder in Great Western Trains (who then won the North Western franchise) before taking over Great Western outright in 1998.

I think First put in a joint bid with the Management for West Anglia Great Northern but lost out to Prism Rail.

Back to Rock Ferry, and Stagecoach might need clearance not just from the OFT, but also from Duffy!

[MPTE1955]

RE: Rock Ferry & Stagecoach Speculation
I'm not sure that stagecoach will need clearance from the OFT just for Rock Ferry as it would only be their second depot in the Merseyside/Wirral area.