Greater Manchester Tenders

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(11/01/2022 15:15)knutstransport Wrote:  That was the November meeting. There is another meeting the week after next, which will probably include an update on the proposals presented in November.

Yes i am aware, should be further changes listed and there are Tenders up that dont involve a change so wont make the document.

[SF07]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders
Proposed changes in the next GMCA bus committee meeting. Does look like Arriva has taken some of the work in Trafford from Diamond and Little Gem but some still TBC.

January 2022

• 159 (Stotts): Proposed to be re-routed between Greengate and Middleton to run via Alkrington. Re-routed route will be Mainway East, Lincoln Road, Evesham Road, Kirkway, Mainway and Manchester New Road.
• 516 (Diamond/Vision Bus): Evening and Sunday journeys to be re-routed via Brazley to match the planned re-routing of commercial journeys.
• 590 (Warrington's Own Buses): Elm Tree and Kings Avenue estates to be served on journeys from Leigh rather than on the return to Leigh
  

April 2022

• Cat5/5A (Warrington's Own Buses): Route and times changed with service re-routed to serve closer to Dunham Massey. Looks like all journeys will run as Cat5 and Cat5A will be withdrawn and partly replaced by service 280.
• 18 (Diamond/Arriva): Service to be taken over by Arriva. Service re-routed between Urmston and Sale to run via Flixton, Ashton-upon-Mersey and Glebelands Road in Sale, partly replacing services 84A and 260. Urmston to Sale via Stretford covered by services 15, 23, 245, 255 and 263. Evening and Sunday service reduced to a two-hourly service.
• 52 (Go North West): The 2240 Sunday journey from Salford to Failsworth will terminate at NMGH while the 2340 Sunday journey from Salford to Cheetham Hill is withdrawn.
• 84 (Little Gem): New service introduced between Chorlton Green and Withington via Chorlton centre, Merseybank Estate and Southern Cemetery, partly replacing service 84A.
• 84A (Little Gem): Proposed to be withdrawn with parts of route replaced by service 18 and new services 84 and 254.
• 90 (TBC): New service introduced running between Simister and Hilton Park via Prestwich and Carr Clough, partly replacing services 96/96A between Simister and Prestwich and service 94 between Prestwich and Carr Clough.
• 94 (Tyrers/Vision Bus): All journeys to be run by Vision Bus. Service re-routed between Pilsworth and Bury via Fishpool and Pimhole, partly replacing service 494. Service will run a more direct route between Polefield and Broughton, via Prestwich centre and Bury New Road with St Margarets Road and Carr Clough served by new service 90.
• 96/96A (Go North West): Withdrawn and partly replaced by service 90 between Prestwich and Simister. Prestwich to Manchester covered by services X41 and X43 and connections with Metrolink at Prestwich station.
• 254 (Arriva): New service introduced, running between Stretford and Davyhulme via Humphrey Park, Urmston and Trafford General Hospital, partly replacing service 84A.
• 260 (Little Gem): Service re-routed to run as a local service around Sale via Ashton Lane, Carrington Lane, Epping Drive, Manor Avenue and Firs Road. Sale to Partington will be served by new service 280, while Glebelands Road and Grosvenor Road served by service 18.
• 261 (Little Gem): Re-timed.
• 262 (Little Gem): Re-timed with extra morning and afternoon journeys.
• 273 (Rosso): Proposed to be withdrawn. 480 proposed to replace service between Bolton and Ramsbottom
• 280 (TBC): New service introduced between Altrincam and Sale via Dunham Massey, Warburton, Partington and Carrington. Service will run hourly Monday-Saturday daytime.
• 288 (Little Gem/Arriva): Re-routed to run between Altrincham and World Freight Centre only (East Didsbury-Altrincham replaced by re-routed service 44). Runway Visitor Centre on Sundays will no longer be served. All journeys operated by Arriva.
• 411 (TBC): New service introduced between Oldham and Derker, partly replacing service 402. Service will run along existing 402 between Oldham bus station and Derker apart from not serving Higginshaw Lane (served by re-routed 403) and will run along full length of Egerton Street and then Shaw Road to Yates Street.
• 467/468 (Rosso): Additional proposed changes to the evening and Sunday timetable with some journeys extended or withdrawn.
• 480 (Rosso): The proposed evening and Sunday service between Bury and Holcombe Brook will now run along the whole route between Bolton and Bury, running every two hours. Peak-time journeys between Ramsbottom and Bolton are introduced, partly replacing service 273.
• 494 (Tyrers/Vision Bus): Withdrawn and replaced by services 94 and B4.
• B2 (Rosso): In addition to the proposed Sunday service introduced, an evening journey at 2110 will be introduced.
• R3/R13 (Rosso): All journeys to run as service R3 but along the R13 route. Evening service introduced between Rochdale and Healey Corner.
• Middleton & Heywood Local Link (Nexus): The Middleton service will no longer serve Kingsway Business Park due to extension of service R7 to Middleton.
• Partington Local Link (Nexus): The Monday-Saturday daytime service will be withdrawn following planned introduction of service 280. Service will run early mornings, evenings and Sundays.
  

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.g...rt%20A.pdf

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders
I was told Arriva had won around 10 Buses worth of work from WY so the Gains confirmed here should cover that

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(13/01/2022 17:51)SF07 Wrote:  [*]288 (Little Gem/Arriva): Re-routed to run between Altrincham and World Freight Centre only (East Didsbury-Altrincham replaced by re-routed service 44). Runway Visitor Centre on Sundays will no longer be served. All journeys operated by Arriva.

New service to be provided by Arriva (not Little Gem), last bus from the airport to be 21:32. Sunday service remain 2 hourly, no mention of whether it will continue to interwork with a 2 hourly 88.

Quote:Cat5/5A (Warrington's Own Buses): Route and times changed with service re-routed to serve closer to Dunham Massey. Looks like all journeys will run as Cat5 and Cat5A will be withdrawn and partly replaced by service 280.

"
280
There has been considerable concern raised about the loss of the service through Dunham
Massey village and extensive engagement with stakeholders regarding options for its
replacement. These proposals address the majority of these concerns.
Evening and Sunday facilities between Partington and Sale, and between Dunham Massey and
Altrincham will continue to be available on Partington Local Link. While tenders were issued for
a conventional bus service at these times, to mirror the daytime service, no bids were received
due to the restriction imposed by the low bridge. Additional, Warrington CAT5 reported above
will provide a Sunday service from Warburton and Dunham Massey (Rope & Anchor) into
Altrincham via Broadheath."
New 280 route: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...00001&z=13

Not sure that makes sense. If there's operators who bid for a 280 daytime service, how can the low bridge be the sole issue for an evening and Sunday service? I think it might mean the operators don't have enough drivers or aren't interested in an evening/weekend contract.

[djb]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(13/01/2022 19:34)knutstransport Wrote:  New service to be provided by Arriva (not Little Gem), last bus from the airport to be 21:32. Sunday service remain 2 hourly, no mention of whether it will continue to interwork with a 2 hourly 88.



"
280
There has been considerable concern raised about the loss of the service through Dunham
Massey village and extensive engagement with stakeholders regarding options for its
replacement. These proposals address the majority of these concerns.
Evening and Sunday facilities between Partington and Sale, and between Dunham Massey and
Altrincham will continue to be available on Partington Local Link. While tenders were issued for
a conventional bus service at these times, to mirror the daytime service, no bids were received
due to the restriction imposed by the low bridge. Additional, Warrington CAT5 reported above
will provide a Sunday service from Warburton and Dunham Massey (Rope & Anchor) into
Altrincham via Broadheath."
New 280 route: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...00001&z=13

Not sure that makes sense. If there's operators who bid for a 280 daytime service, how can the low bridge be the sole issue for an evening and Sunday service? I think it might mean the operators don't have enough drivers or aren't interested in an evening/weekend contract.

Operators may not want the hassle / risk of ensuring that the vehicle available for the evening service is low enough height. Easier to ensure the daytime allocation has the right vehicle.

[urmstonian]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders
The issue with the bridge seems to the way it is signed. See this link:
https://democratic.trafford.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=37351

[Solo40336]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(14/01/2022 08:25)djb Wrote:  Operators may not want the hassle / risk of ensuring that the vehicle available for the evening service is low enough height. Easier to ensure the daytime allocation has the right vehicle.

If anything, its much easier to allocate specific buses to evening services. During the day there is generally less spare vehicles, as well as Monthly inspections being carried out. During the evening its easier to ensure that low height buses are in the correct places, as well as making it easier if a vehicle needs swapping at any point in the evening.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(14/01/2022 13:01)Solo40336 Wrote:  If anything, its much easier to allocate specific buses to evening services. During the day there is generally less spare vehicles, as well as Monthly inspections being carried out. During the evening its easier to ensure that low height buses are in the correct places, as well as making it easier if a vehicle needs swapping at any point in the evening.

That was my thinking. Plus evening services tend to have lower loadings so the minimum capacity will probably be lower, meaning more flexibility on which vehicles meet the requirements.

It was rumoured Cheshire East council invited Go Goodwins to bid for the 391/392 contract, rather than Go Goodwins noticing a Stockport service was out-to-tender with Cheshire East and bidding for it. I wonder if TfGM needed to do the same with an evening service in Altrincham, close to the Cheshire border.

Which vehicles are suitable for the low bridge?

[djb]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(14/01/2022 15:52)knutstransport Wrote:  That was my thinking. Plus evening services tend to have lower loadings so the minimum capacity will probably be lower, meaning more flexibility on which vehicles meet the requirements.

It was rumoured Cheshire East council invited Go Goodwins to bid for the 391/392 contract, rather than Go Goodwins noticing a Stockport service was out-to-tender with Cheshire East and bidding for it. I wonder if TfGM needed to do the same with an evening service in Altrincham, close to the Cheshire border.

Which vehicles are suitable for the low bridge?

Of your more modern vehicles : Stratas, solos.
Primos and The ex click sprinters would too ….

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(14/01/2022 15:52)knutstransport Wrote:  That was my thinking. Plus evening services tend to have lower loadings so the minimum capacity will probably be lower, meaning more flexibility on which vehicles meet the requirements.

It was rumoured Cheshire East council invited Go Goodwins to bid for the 391/392 contract, rather than Go Goodwins noticing a Stockport service was out-to-tender with Cheshire East and bidding for it. I wonder if TfGM needed to do the same with an evening service in Altrincham, close to the Cheshire border.

Which vehicles are suitable for the low bridge?

Cheshire East approached several operators regarding the 391/392 and apparently Go Goodwins were the only company interested.
Although Cheshire East claimed it was due to covid they struggled to get any interest in the contract when MCT informed them they were closing in April 2020, covid and lockdown fell at the right time, giving them an extended period to try and get the contract picked up.