LCR Bus Franchising

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising
All I will add to this is Merseytravel have systematically reduced tendered services through "reviews" under the pretence of making services "better". If you believe a franchising model in which Merseytravel have anything to do with it will be any better, I am unsure what to say. Deregulation may well have been a mistake but it is not the 80s any more and a franchised network isn't going to bring back the "glory days". I'd rather the government focused on getting my energy prices from spiralling out of control before enforcing a council tax hike for a service I have no intention of using.

[MPTE1955]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising

(27/02/2022 21:01)CX06 EBK Wrote:  All I will add to this is Merseytravel have systematically reduced tendered services through "reviews" under the pretence of making services "better". If you believe a franchising model in which Merseytravel have anything to do with it will be any better, I am unsure what to say. Deregulation may well have been a mistake but it is not the 80s any more and a franchised network isn't going to bring back the "glory days". I'd rather the government focused on getting my energy prices from spiralling out of control before enforcing a council tax hike for a service I have no intention of using.

Agreed, also think the idea that fares would be cheaper is pie in the sky.

[1466]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising
Couldn't come soon enough, these private operators have been taking the mickey for far too long, the sooner the network is seen as a whole and busy routes cross-subsidise less busy routes the better, also if we are to meet our climate goals, then subsidising public transport is good value for money and is a no-brainer, £30 per year in Greater Manchester, what a bargain

[Barney]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising

(27/02/2022 21:01)CX06 EBK Wrote:  All I will add to this is Merseytravel have systematically reduced tendered services through "reviews" under the pretence of making services "better". If you believe a franchising model in which Merseytravel have anything to do with it will be any better, I am unsure what to say. Deregulation may well have been a mistake but it is not the 80s any more and a franchised network isn't going to bring back the "glory days". I'd rather the government focused on getting my energy prices from spiralling out of control before enforcing a council tax hike for a service I have no intention of using.

I find it quite odd that the very people who set up this site are so anti-bus and state that they have no intention of using buses now or at any time in the future. As for not wishing your taxes to be spent on services you don't use, I pay over £300 a year for the police and fire and rescue services neither of which I have ever required.

The reason why tendered services have been systematically reduced - particularly since the austerity cuts were introduced in 2010 - is because bus grants across the whole of the UK have suffered more than any other public service. In large swathes of rural areas of the UK now there are many, many people in possession of your maligned concessionary pass but without any bus service.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50166423

Nobody has suggested that franchising will bring back the "glory days" overnight but it is hoped that it will halt the decline in bus usage which now seems to be in terminal decline.

[Mayneway]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising

(28/02/2022 09:35)Barney Wrote:  Nobody has suggested that franchising will bring back the "glory days" overnight but it is hoped that it will halt the decline in bus usage which now seems to be in terminal decline.

Firstly you don’t have to be anti bus to be against franchising.

Bus usage won’t increase. The government and health authority’s spent much of the First lockdown telling people not to use public transport unless they had to. It was insinuated it wasn’t safe. So suddenly many people who used the buses day in day out have gone out, passed driving tests and bought cars. The demand for second hand and new cars during lockdown soared. There’s more people on the road now then ever before. Still massive back logs for driving tests. More parents are now dropping kids at school because they don’t want them using buses. Yes patronage has increased but not to the levels before covid.

Again there is no garrentee that under franchising more bus services won’t be cut.

[Barney]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising
I agree that the past two years have been atypical with respect to most things in life and certainly, the mixed messages being issued regarding the use of public transport have been very unhelpful. The 'school run' had been a growing problem for many years now and yes it is getting worse. Where I live, I see parents chauffeuring their darlings a few hundred yards to the school gates because they are concerned about the high levels of road traffic. Irony is clearly lost on them.

However, though the pandemic is not over, society needs to get back to some level of normality. Yes, road traffic is now back to the levels it was pre-pandemic but this is unsustainable in major conurbations such as Manchester and the LCR.

The price of fuel is a global issue and the current tragic situation in Ukraine is a warning to us all that cheap fuel is not a given. Already the price of a litre of unleaded is 50% more than it was 18 months ago and the media is now focusing on how the war is impacting on the "hard-pressed motorist". Like the Suez crisis, the consequences of Putin's aggression will have a lasting impact on gas and oil supplies for many years to come and it is possible that a similar situation to the one that occurred in 2000 during the tanker drivers' dispute will be repeated where many people will ditch the car and resort to public transport especially if there is a viable option.

[Mayneway]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising
Traffic isn’t back to pre-covid level though, it’s hit ‘normal’ lad gone 50% worse. I’ve never seen traffic not only in the town I live but in the city centre of Manchester where I work as bad as it is now. We assumed on the run up to Christmas it was just Christmas shoppers and come January it would calm down but it’s not. The rush hour used to start at 1600/1630 now it starts at 1430 and goes on well past 1900.
People don’t want to use public transport because they have been told it’s not safe. People won’t hang up car keys and start using buses again. It will take decades to fix.

And the biggy, franchising the bus network won’t suddenly make the traffic disappear and buses get in and out of towns and city centres on time. The city mayors need to sort congestion first, all the badly timed lights and the poor state of the roads themselves and then when everything’s working as it should look at some form of franchising but in all honestly if London can’t get it right what hope do we have?

[Barney]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising

(28/02/2022 11:45)Mayneway Wrote:  Traffic isn’t back to pre-covid level though, it’s hit ‘normal’ lad gone 50% worse. I’ve never seen traffic not only in the town I live but in the city centre of Manchester where I work as bad as it is now. We assumed on the run up to Christmas it was just Christmas shoppers and come January it would calm down but it’s not. The rush hour used to start at 1600/1630 now it starts at 1430 and goes on well past 1900.
People don’t want to use public transport because they have been told it’s not safe. People won’t hang up car keys and start using buses again. It will take decades to fix.

And the biggy, franchising the bus network won’t suddenly make the traffic disappear and buses get in and out of towns and city centres on time. The city mayors need to sort congestion first, all the badly timed lights and the poor state of the roads themselves and then when everything’s working as it should look at some form of franchising but in all honestly if London can’t get it right what hope do we have?

I agree that traffic congestion has got a lot worse and that a long-term, multi-layered approach is needed including a CAZ. Currently, all public transport works independently of each other and what seems to be a deliberate policy of not co-ordinating buses with the Merseyrail network is extremely frustrating for me.

By your own admission, traffic congestion in major conurbations - and all its associated consequences - is now at its worst in living memory. Improving the road network, surfaces and infrastructure will have very little effect in mitigating these problems. As you are ideologically opposed to franchising as one way of tackling this elephant in the room, what would you suggest?

[Mayneway]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising

(28/02/2022 12:25)Barney Wrote:  I agree that traffic congestion has got a lot worse and that a long-term, multi-layered approach is needed including a CAZ. Currently, all public transport works independently of each other and what seems to be a deliberate policy of not co-ordinating buses with the Merseyrail network is extremely frustrating for me.

By your own admission, traffic congestion in major conurbations - and all its associated consequences - is now at its worst in living memory. Improving the road network, surfaces and infrastructure will have very little effect in mitigating these problems. As you are ideologically opposed to franchising as one way of tackling this elephant in the room, what would you suggest?

Charging hard up motorists another tax won’t solve the problem.
People will do certain ways to avoid badly timed lights or roads with potholes or huge speed bumps.
I can list loads of examples in Manchester but it’s pointless. One of the major roads out of the city centre, chapel street. A two lane road towards Salford. Half way up one of the lanes suddenly becomes a bus lane so this is a bottle neck for congestion. If the bus lane started at the beginning of the road your taking away the cause of congestion, and that’s just one example.

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: LCR Bus Franchising
Barney, I am not anti bus but I do not see how services will improve under franchising, you are saying that services were cut due to austerity measures which is fair enough, so suddenly where is all this money coming from to provide all these new services? If its through further council tax increases then you can see why there is opposition to it - my council tax bills have increased at the expense of even a weekly bin collection so you will have to forgive me if I find it hard to believe that services will be increased in any capacity.

As someone who works in the industry, hypothetically would this franchising model allow me to get to and from work any better than currently? As currently it would take 2 buses (at least) and over 3 hours of my time with NO return journey possible and even if it was again I'd have to allow another 3 hours for a return journey. Running a car is at an all time high but to me it is still preferable to having to use public transport as it allows me to go where I want when I want - a franchise model headed by Merseytravel hardly fills me with any confidence of change.

Finally my only other real thoughts are if Merseytravel and the local council are to be the major players in this - what chance have the bus services got for improvement? The council have not just made the city centre unfriendly for cars, they have made it unfriendly for any traffic including buses. Buses constantly running short to maintain some semblence of service because Hanover Street is still a joke, the bus gate is STILL not active.