Greater Manchester Tenders

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(27/02/2022 10:42)Mayneway Wrote:  Not true. The only contractual stipulation is age. Of operators choose to use a non compliant vehicle exhaust system wise they pay the fines when the CAZ comes in, and when I say WHEN I mean IF because it’s all up in the air at the moment.

What I was getting is is Go Goodwins knew the CAZ was planned when they acquired vehicles for the 1 year contracts they had been awarded. If they planned to use them long term they would have started looking at the grants for Euro 6 engines before the tendering process started for new contracts. The invitation to tender for the new contracts went out before the CAZ start date was postponed, so bidders would have prepared for either using Euro 6 vehicles or £50 daily fines. I would guess anyone who bid on the basis of getting a £50 fine daily wouldn't have a competitive bid!

In contrast D&G have fitted the Solos usually used on the 130 with Euro 6 engines, when the existing contract was for 1 year ending in April 2022 with the option for a 12 month extension. It's been reported the council offered them the 12 month extension and D&G rejected it.

[Barney]

 RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(27/02/2022 10:42)Mayneway Wrote:  Not true. The only contractual stipulation is age. Of operators choose to use a non compliant vehicle exhaust system wise they pay the fines when the CAZ comes in, and when I say WHEN I mean IF because it’s all up in the air at the moment.

"It's all up in the air at the moment". I see what you did there.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(28/02/2022 12:32)Barney Wrote:  "It's all up in the air at the moment". I see what you did there.

And it’s been announced on BBC radio Manchester this morning that it’s been scrapie altogether and following a meeting later today between all 10 councils it will be officially announced. If it is scrapped this puts Burnhams franchising at greater risk.

[Paul_Turner]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(27/02/2022 10:42)Mayneway Wrote:  Not true. The only contractual stipulation is age. Of operators choose to use a non compliant vehicle exhaust system wise they pay the fines when the CAZ comes in, and when I say WHEN I mean IF because it’s all up in the air at the moment.

Not true. All TFGM contracts since at least September 2021 have required Euro 6 buses, including those starting in April.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(28/02/2022 20:00)Paul_Turner Wrote:  Not true. All TFGM contracts since at least September 2021 have required Euro 6 buses, including those starting in April.

Only school contracts and some regular contracts have specified euro 6. Stagecoach, GNW and many others are still using non Euro 6 vehicles.
I know when I drive tendered services TFGM supervisors sometimes check the age of the Vehicle being used but how would they know if an engine was euro 6 or not?

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(28/02/2022 22:20)Mayneway Wrote:  I know when I drive tendered services TFGM supervisors sometimes check the age of the Vehicle being used but how would they know if an engine was euro 6 or not?

In some cases it's a quick web search. For instance, searching for DG55 BUS returns the following:

Vehicle make WRIGHTBUS
Date of first registration January 2014
Date of first registration with DVLA June 2019
Year of manufacture 2014
Cylinder capacity 4461 cc
CO₂ emissions 0 g/km
Fuel type DIESEL
Euro status EURO 5
Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker No
Vehicle status Taxed
Vehicle colour RED
Vehicle type approval M3
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight 12960 kg
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 20 June 2019

For many vehicles that field returns a result of 'Not available' but if you have the 11 digit reference number from the V5C registration, further details can be obtained regarding the road tax rate.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(01/03/2022 11:40)knutstransport Wrote:  In some cases it's a quick web search. For instance, searching for DG55 BUS returns the following:

Vehicle make WRIGHTBUS
Date of first registration January 2014
Date of first registration with DVLA June 2019
Year of manufacture 2014
Cylinder capacity 4461 cc
CO₂ emissions 0 g/km
Fuel type DIESEL
Euro status EURO 5
Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker No
Vehicle status Taxed
Vehicle colour RED
Vehicle type approval M3
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight 12960 kg
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 20 June 2019

For many vehicles that field returns a result of 'Not available' but if you have the 11 digit reference number from the V5C registration, further details can be obtained regarding the road tax rate.

Do you think someone at TFGM sits checking these day in day out?

[Solo40336]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(01/03/2022 11:40)knutstransport Wrote:  For many vehicles that field returns a result of 'Not available' but if you have the 11 digit reference number from the V5C registration, further details can be obtained regarding the road tax rate.

TfGM won't have access to the V5's to check.

Up until I left the buses a couple of months back we were using any vehicles on some tenders, while others were specified euro 6, caused a right headache during the time buses were being converted.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(01/03/2022 11:49)Mayneway Wrote:  Do you think someone at TFGM sits checking these day in day out?

How do TfGM check vehicles with personalised plates meet the age requirements specified by contracts?

For inspectors it'll be obvious which vehicles aren't Euro VI. If I'm out walking and an Enviro drives past I can tell whether it's Euro VI or not just from how strong the pollution smell is or isn't. Any check would just need to confirm their suspicions, a bit like breathalysing a driver whose breath stinks of alcohol.

If they use ANPR at bus stations they can easily check whether any vehicles entering the station are on a Euro 5 or age blacklist or not, without any manual intervention.

[Solo40336]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(01/03/2022 13:26)knutstransport Wrote:  How do TfGM check vehicles with personalised plates meet the age requirements specified by contracts?

For inspectors it'll be obvious which vehicles aren't Euro VI. If I'm out walking and an Enviro drives past I can tell whether it's Euro VI or not just from how strong the pollution smell is or isn't. Any check would just need to confirm their suspicions, a bit like breathalysing a driver whose breath stinks of alcohol.

If they use ANPR at bus stations they can easily check whether any vehicles entering the station are on a Euro 5 or age blacklist or not, without any manual intervention.

You can't smell the difference between Euro 5 or 6, take it from someone who has spent 40 hours a week for the last decade breathing in buses exhaust fumes and who has been heavily involved in the Euro 6 retrofits across various GM fleets, If I stood next to a Euro 5 or 6 bus with my eyes closed, I couldn't tell either apart, so neither can a bus station inspector.