Manchester bus franchising

[Mayneway]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(19/01/2023 03:42)Mrboo Wrote:  Yes they will.

Think about it put in a high tender and if you win pull buses off say a seasonal route or a route you can get away with cutting.

As summer is not as busy.

They could just run from Bury to Middleton every hour. What could they cut maybe cut the 18 from going to MRI to every hour.

Maybe even a coach firm would be tempted who not really into service work.
Atlantic travel maybe.

On Rail Replacement we have firms who always put in high bids as they don't really want the work but every now and then they hit jackpot.

Is there anything to say GNW can't start early on that route. Drivers are ready to jump ship always with right offer.

also what other tenders are due for renewal that maybe dropped for this.

If not they will just have to offer local link service.

Your first line says it all. You can only put in a high tender IF it’s put out to tender. There’s an alternative in the 18 and 135, not to mention the tram, so the likely hood is IF it is put out to tender they will only cover the Middleton - darn hill - bury section as there’s no direct alternative.

Look at the 162 to Norden. TFGM are only paying for 6 journeys a day on the 17 to extend to Norden.

[Mrboo]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(19/01/2023 10:41)Mayneway Wrote:  Your first line says it all. You can only put in a high tender IF it’s put out to tender. There’s an alternative in the 18 and 135, not to mention the tram, so the likely hood is IF it is put out to tender they will only cover the Middleton - darn hill - bury section as there’s no direct alternative.

Look at the 162 to Norden. TFGM are only paying for 6 journeys a day on the 17 to extend to Norden.

It will be put out to Tender or it will never return. And am sure the local MP will be pushing hard. Look at what happened with Newton health to Ashton

[Mayneway]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(20/01/2023 14:02)Mrboo Wrote:  It will be put out to Tender or it will never return. And am sure the local MP will be pushing hard. Look at what happened with Newton health to Ashton

Yeah we have the 396 and the 151 and they both pass through Failsworth empty most of the time.

Tfgm will simply say there’s alternatives for the majority of the journey only section that is likely to see potential funding is the Heywood, Darnhill, bury section.

[Manc93]

RE: Manchester bus franchising
Regarding the 163 and it being run by Diamond in Bolton, what probably makes it unprofitable or just making money is the fact it must have a lot of dead mileage, either doing driver changeovers in Bury or running empty buses back to the Bolton base.
At a guess i would say Bury back to Bolton running out of service must be 25/30 minutes so thats an hour a day pretty much for each driver on the 163 for dead running.

Also with traffic issues around the city, im sure its a common occurance where drivers are running extremely late for breaks etc, and this will have a knock on effect to other services whichever the driver may next be on.

IMO it looks to me like Diamond are
a) focusing on running the most profitable routes for the remaining of time they run Bolton depot
b) trying to run the most reliable service they can with driver shortages. How many drivers are maybe looking for other work instead of being TUPED over to GNW.... less services means less drivers needed.

[moreton407]

RE: Manchester bus franchising
How will it work with TFGM tendered services operating the same routes from outside the area, eg 125 (Preston-Chorley-Bolton), 320 (St Helens-Wigan), 375/385 (Southport-Wigan).

Is the Arriva 362 (Wigan-Chorley) operated by Bolton Depot or St Helens Depot?

[MTL0201]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(19/01/2023 06:28)M60lad Wrote:  Isn't the problem with 163 the route it actually takes I mean who really want's to travel from Middleton-Bury via both Langley and Darn Hill Estates?

If I remember rightly 163 is 2 routes that First combined together many years ago to make one route as 163 only used to run as far as Darn Hill Highlander (Terminus) and I think there was a 164 that ran straight to Heywood from Middleton missing out Langley.

Looking at route history, seems 163 was extended to Bury long before First brought GM Buses North, here's a timetable from 1995, then only Evening & Sunday 163 terminated in Darn Hill, it went to Bury rest of the time.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MEFvdY4...Ms_hs/view

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(21/01/2023 09:27)moreton407 Wrote:  How will it work with TFGM tendered services operating the same routes from outside the area, eg 125 (Preston-Chorley-Bolton), 320 (St Helens-Wigan), 375/385 (Southport-Wigan).

Is the Arriva 362 (Wigan-Chorley) operated by Bolton Depot or Bolton Depot?

362 moving to Wigan Depot i believe, Rest are operated from outside Greater Manchester so not part of Franchising

[MTL0201]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(21/01/2023 09:27)moreton407 Wrote:  How will it work with TFGM tendered services operating the same routes from outside the area, eg 125 (Preston-Chorley-Bolton), 320 (St Helens-Wigan), 375/385 (Southport-Wigan).

Is the Arriva 362 (Wigan-Chorley) operated by Bolton Depot or Bolton Depot?

I was thinking this myself, Orrell & Billinge would be most affected as all the routes through their are operated from St Helens or Southport depots, on the 353/375/385/395.

But, i think it'll be similar to TFL area, were theirs a few routes that operate from depots outside the TFL area, but have a licence [called London Service Permits] to operate into the TFL area, most of the routes operate to Uxbridge, Heathrow, & Kingston.

[moreton407]

RE: Manchester bus franchising
So how does it work with commercial Arriva and Stagecoach routes from outside the TFGM area operating along the same route as subsidised routes within the TFGM area?

SO the 362 is currently run by Arriva Bolton?

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Manchester bus franchising

(21/01/2023 11:11)moreton407 Wrote:  So how does it work with commercial Arriva and Stagecoach routes from outside the TFGM area operating along the same route as subsidised routes within the TFGM area?

SO the 362 is currently run by Arriva Bolton?

For the moment yes