Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

[Barney]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(26/06/2023 22:56)CUL 73V Wrote:  We do need night buses, absolutely. However, a more cost effective and beneficial solution is LCR subsidising a night bus network. Saves the taxpayer a large sum of money and contributes to the economy.

LCR can have all the aims they like, but I don't trust them to deliver a pizza.

Where do you think LCR/Merseytravel gets its funding in order to subsidise bus routes? Taxes.

I am old school and, apart from milk many decades ago, I have never had a pizza or any other suchlike food delivered to my door so I have no idea how efficient or not such services are.

[CUL 73V]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 09:10)Barney Wrote:  Where do you think LCR/Merseytravel gets its funding in order to subsidise bus routes? Taxes.

I am old school and, apart from milk many decades ago, I have never had a pizza or any other suchlike food delivered to my door so I have no idea how efficient or not such services are.

Don't patronise me, I know full well where their money comes from. There's a £710 million package of government funding LCR is receiving over five years, a small portion of which could subsidise a night bus network at no additional expense to the taxpayer. I can tell you now, if LCR ask for more money for franchising as has been suggested, the answer will be no.

You really are mistaken if you think franchising will solve anything. There are people here who work in the industry who know how clueless those who'd be in charge of it really are. Merseytravel's city centre connectivity "improvement" scheme is another farce. Anyone coming from the Breck Road or West Derby Road corridors needs to change buses at Queen Square or walk half way across the city centre to get to Liverpool One. The 14 and 15 should never have been curtailed, because all it's achieved is to make crossing the city centre by bus more difficult. But, I suppose LCC can also take some blame for the 14 with their "improvements" to Mann Island. For the 15, there's no excuse.

By the way, 0/10 for your woeful attempt at humour.

[Barney]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 10:25)CUL 73V Wrote:  Don't patronise me, I know full well where their money comes from. There's a £710 million package of government funding LCR is receiving over five years, a small portion of which could subsidise a night bus network at no additional expense to the taxpayer. I can tell you now, if LCR ask for more money for franchising as has been suggested, the answer will be no.

You really are mistaken if you think franchising will solve anything. There are people here who work in the industry who know how clueless those who'd be in charge of it really are. Merseytravel's city centre connectivity "improvement" scheme is another farce. Anyone coming from the Breck Road or West Derby Road corridors needs to change buses at Queen Square or walk half way across the city centre to get to Liverpool One. The 14 and 15 should never have been curtailed, because all it's achieved is to make crossing the city centre by bus more difficult. But, I suppose LCC can also take some blame for the 14 with their "improvements" to Mann Island. For the 15, there's no excuse.

By the way, 0/10 for your woeful attempt at humour.

In what way was I patronising you? I merely pointed out to you that I have a different life experience.

I totally agree with you that the Connectivity Plan has been a disaster but wasn't this conceived and implemented by Liverpool City Council under the direction of the former leader, Joe Anderson, who was clearly anti-bus? Personally, I think the creation of the various cycle lanes in the city centre at the expense of road space and bus lanes is totally flawed as the only cyclists I ever see using them are those delivering pizzas and other types of fast food. From memory, I think that the councillor responsible for devising the Connectivity Plan resigned his post several years ago when it was obvious that it was going to be a failure.

Also, it is an open secret that there is/was no love lost between Anderson and Rotherham as they have/had very different visions for how public transport should operate within the LCR.

Merseytravel's role, which to some extent it did do, was to liaise with Arriva and Stagecoach to mitigate the impact of these radical changes and it certainly wasn't responsible for devising or proposing the Connectivity Plan.

[CUL 73V]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 12:44)Barney Wrote:  In what way was I patronising you? I merely pointed out to you that I have a different life experience.

I totally agree with you that the Connectivity Plan has been a disaster but wasn't this conceived and implemented by Liverpool City Council under the direction of the former leader, Joe Anderson, who was clearly anti-bus? Personally, I think the creation of the various cycle lanes in the city centre at the expense of road space and bus lanes is totally flawed as the only cyclists I ever see using them are those delivering pizzas and other types of fast food. From memory, I think that the councillor responsible for devising the Connectivity Plan resigned his post several years ago when it was obvious that it was going to be a failure.

Also, it is an open secret that there is/was no love lost between Anderson and Rotherham as they have/had very different visions for how public transport should operate within the LCR.

Merseytravel's role, which to some extent it did do, was to liaise with Arriva and Stagecoach to mitigate the impact of these radical changes and it certainly wasn't responsible for devising or proposing the Connectivity Plan.

I'm 28 years old, I don't need to be told how taxation works or how local authority funding is provided.

Merseytravel went along with LCC's "improvements", so they are equally responsible for the fact it is now much harder to get to Liverpool One and the waterfront by bus if you live in the north of Liverpool. If there was any critical thinking within Merseytravel at the time, they'd have realised the problem wasn't the number of buses in the core of the city centre, but a lack of effective bus lanes and advised LCC this was the case. The problems with bus provision in this city are not the fault of the operators as Rotheram tries to make us believe, but the local authorities who couldn't be any more anti bus and sub standard if they tried.

There is not one authority or politician in this city region up to the standard required. I very much doubt this will ever change, because the city and LCR will continue to elect the same officials who don't care and haven't got a clue how to run a bus network between them.

[1466]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising
If it was down to me I would eliminate the private operators all together, every pound stuffed in a back pocket of a shareholder is one that could be spent to support a bus service.
Franchising will allow public transport to be planned as a network, with busy routes cross subsidising less busy ones, it can’t come soon enough.

[childwallblues]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising
Spot on I totally agree with the comments. I find it incredible that there is no longer a bus stop between Pembroke Place and Lime Street, and people that work in the Old Hall Street have to walk from Queen Square or Liverpool One if they have to use the bus. No wonder the Vauxhall district is full of parked cars during the week.

[CUL 73V]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 19:57)1466 Wrote:  If it was down to me I would eliminate the private operators all together, every pound stuffed in a back pocket of a shareholder is one that could be spent to support a bus service.
Franchising will allow public transport to be planned as a network, with busy routes cross subsidising less busy ones, it can’t come soon enough.

That still wouldn't improve matters in the slightest. As I said earlier, the problems the city region has with its bus services are not down to the private operators, but sub standard local authorities. Nothing is going to improve while the latter is a problem, whether the buses are operated by the private sector, franchised or municipal.

Merseytravel's network of tendered services aren't particularly well organised and every single "review" has been an utter farce, so I don't see how them running an entire network would be any better.

[moreton407]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 20:03)childwallblues Wrote:  Spot on I totally agree with the comments. I find it incredible that there is no longer a bus stop between Pembroke Place and Lime Street, and people that work in the Old Hall Street have to walk from Queen Square or Liverpool One if they have to use the bus. No wonder the Vauxhall district is full of parked cars during the week.

isn't the lack of bus stops and road closures/pedestrianisation down to Merseytravel and the council? Not Arriva or Stagecoach? And if buses where franchised would then that put a bus stop where one hasn't been before? And also the city centre had circular routes that trundled around the Old Hall Street area that Merseytravel funded but withdrew them because nobody got on them.

[1466]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(27/06/2023 21:34)CUL 73V Wrote:  That still wouldn't improve matters in the slightest. As I said earlier, the problems the city region has with its bus services are not down to the private operators, but sub standard local authorities. Nothing is going to improve while the latter is a problem, whether the buses are operated by the private sector, franchised or municipal.

Merseytravel's network of tendered services aren't particularly well organised and every single "review" has been an utter farce, so I don't see how them running an entire network would be any better.

Utter tosh, you want to live where I live, the private operators who are only interested in how much profit they can trouser have left my community virtually cut off in the evenings, Sundays and bank holidays. Franchising will fix that.

Merseytravel and the local authorities have all been hammered by austerity, if you think they are substandard, as we live in a democracy, you are well within your rights to put yourself forward if you think you can do better

[moreton407]

RE: Liverpool City Region Bus Franchising

(28/06/2023 10:57)1466 Wrote:  Utter tosh, you want to live where I live, the private operators who are only interested in how much profit they can trouser have left my community virtually cut off in the evenings, Sundays and bank holidays. Franchising will fix that.

Merseytravel and the local authorities have all been hammered by austerity, if you think they are substandard, as we live in a democracy, you are well within your rights to put yourself forward if you think you can do better

If the area you live in has been cut off by the private operators in the evenings, Sundays and Bank Holidays why haven't Merseytravel provided one?

Merseytravel are happy to pay for bus services that carry fresh air round day and night, their new HQ in the waterfront and a failed tram system.