First Group Disposals

[mbonwick]

 First Group Disposals
As suggested by the Admins, here's a new thread to discuss the sell-off by First Group

The current tranche of offerings comprises; (so yes, there is more to be announced)

Wigan (116 buses)
Birkenhead (64 buses)
Chester (66 buses)
Kidderminster (20 buses)
Redditch (31 buses)
Northampton (35 buses)
Somerset – as yet unspecified (163 buses)

Going from previous sales (Northumberland Park and North Devon), the sales have rased £95-110k per bus.

Let's all please try to keep this thread sensible and avoid speculation.

[arrifirststage]

RE: First Group Disposals

(02/07/2012 15:30)mbonwick Wrote:  As suggested by the Admins, here's a new thread to discuss the sell-off by First Group

The current tranche of offerings comprises; (so yes, there is more to be announced)

Wigan (116 buses)
Birkenhead (64 buses)
Chester (66 buses)
Kidderminster (20 buses)
Redditch (31 buses)
Northampton (35 buses)
Somerset – as yet unspecified (163 buses)

Going from previous sales (Northumberland Park and North Devon), the sales have rased £95-110k per bus.

Let's all please try to keep this thread sensible and avoid speculation.

I would be amazed if this amount per bus were to be generated at either Kidderminster or Redditch.
It would be easier for the incumbent operators (East Yorkshire and Rotala respectively) to just register First routes and see if First have the stomach for a bus war,,,,,,,,,,probably they would not,and would yield ground much more cheaply.

[mbonwick]

RE: First Group Disposals
There's a lot to suggest that youu're right and that £~100k per vehicle will not be generated.

I suppose in First's eyes any cash for the operations is a bonus - just getting rid of loss-making regions is good enough!

[maltabus]

RE: First Group Disposals
The "current tranche" according to who?

First are saying this is incorrect and no decisions have yet been made.

(02/07/2012 15:30)mbonwick Wrote:  As suggested by the Admins, here's a new thread to discuss the sell-off by First Group

The current tranche of offerings comprises; (so yes, there is more to be announced)

Wigan (116 buses)
Birkenhead (64 buses)
Chester (66 buses)
Kidderminster (20 buses)
Redditch (31 buses)
Northampton (35 buses)
Somerset – as yet unspecified (163 buses)

Going from previous sales (Northumberland Park and North Devon), the sales have rased £95-110k per bus.

Let's all please try to keep this thread sensible and avoid speculation.

[arrifirststage]

RE: First Group Disposals

(02/07/2012 19:06)mbonwick Wrote:  There's a lot to suggest that youu're right and that £~100k per vehicle will not be generated.

I suppose in First's eyes any cash for the operations is a bonus - just getting rid of loss-making regions is good enough!

I think that in smaller operations (including Northampton) First's assets are really only the value of any property they may own,but First must be optimistic,otherwise they would give notice,deregister and pull out ASAP as they did in Bury St Edmunds.

[mbonwick]

RE: First Group Disposals
http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2012...perations/

In particular "A FirstGroup spokesperson commented: “The vast majority of our UK Bus division generates good returns with opportunities to improve further. As previously announced, however, there is scope to reposition our portfolio to concentrate on those markets that offer the greatest long term potential.

“We are developing opportunities for a number of disposals within our UK Bus division and the unsubstantiated information given to Passenger Transport does not comprise the entire sum of those disposals. We have always been very clear that from the outset that our strategy is to bring those businesses to the market in select tranches to ensure stability for our employees and operations. Given the breach of confidentiality that has taken place it demonstrates that this is the correct approach.

“At this point, we are not disclosing any more details about our plans for commercial reasons and to ensure that we are able to fully consult with any employees and other stakeholders that may be affected.”"

There is no way that the 7 ops listed will generate the £83m ish required to meet the £100m target for sales, so there's more to come.

Agreed that the only value on Northampton is the depot - which is actually what Stagecoach really need if the redevelopment of Greyfriars Bus Station is to happen.

[plannerman]

RE: First Group Disposals
According to the well respected Omnibus Blog, First's situation is such that it would probably accept offers for any part of its bus business. The businesses listed are the ones it would most like to be rid of, but by no means does that exclude the sale of other businesses.
In our area I just can't see who would take Chester on - Arriva would certainly attract Monopolies attention, in my opinion a city network isn't GHA's bag, and no other independents are big enough. I can't see any big groups wanting it, as it would lead directly to a war with Arriva.
Of course if the financial situation warrants it, closure with no sale is always an option - a la Edinburgh. Don't rule it out.

[Garsty]

RE: First Group Disposals
In terms of Chester, in my opinion, a large bus network would be very unlikely to make money due to the nature of travel, which is very much car focused. As Chester does have an excellent road system and people, largely having a greater income compared to some areas, the use of cars is common place, if that was not the case then bus use in Chester would probably be greater, for a city of its size you would certainly expect it to be.

Mentioning GHA, I doubt they would take over the Chester operations as a whole, as they don’t tend to have large presence in a single area, but they might certainly take some aspects, mainly the aspects which are council supported, financially wise.

In terms of not selling Chester at all, Arriva could probably take over the P&R, operate solely on the QBPs and the rest of the routes could probably be met by the independents such as GHA or Helms.

That 66 bus figure for Chester also includes Wrexham of course, so would, from my perspective, be interesting to see what would go on there.

[mic]

RE: First Group Disposals

(02/07/2012 20:00)Garsty Wrote:  In terms of Chester, in my opinion, a large bus network would be very unlikely to make money due to the nature of travel, which is very much car focused. As Chester does have an excellent road system and people, largely having a greater income compared to some areas, the use of cars is common place, if that was not the case then bus use in Chester would probably be greater, for a city of its size you would certainly expect it to be.

Mentioning GHA, I doubt they would take over the Chester operations as a whole, as they don’t tend to have large presence in a single area, but they might certainly take some aspects, mainly the aspects which are council supported, financially wise.

In terms of not selling Chester at all, Arriva could probably take over the P&R, operate solely on the QBPs and the rest of the routes could probably be met by the independents such as GHA or Helms.

That 66 bus figure for Chester also includes Wrexham of course, so would, from my perspective, be interesting to see what would go on there.

good photos of the school buses

[mbonwick]

RE: First Group Disposals
No surprises that Sir Brian is eyeing up the First disposals;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...ssets.html