Cross River Night Buses

[E400]

Cross River Night Buses
Following Ace Travel's demise in February, Stagecoach took over the running of the 500 and 501 cross river night buses on an emergency basis. However, as was recently posted on the Ace Travel thread on this forum, it has been noted that Merseytravel intends to withdraw the last two remaining night buses as of 18th April 2015:

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travellin...ges--.aspx

The reason I have started this thread is to see whether anybody knows the answer to the following question:

Is there a law which requires a 24 hour public transport operation between Liverpool and Birkenhead?

The general consensus is that there is, but I have searched the Transport Act, County of Merseyside Act and Mersey Tunnels Act and cannot find any mention of this requirement.

[SNL 824]

RE: Cross River Night Buses
I don't know for a fact, but I've always understood it to be in the Ferries Charter. To be honest though - I can't even remember who told me.
What I do know is that the night buses started after Birkenhead and Wallasey withdrew all-night ferry services in the late 50s and early 60s.

[E400]

RE: Cross River Night Buses

(09/04/2015 21:19)SNL 824 Wrote:  I don't know for a fact, but I've always understood it to be in the Ferries Charter. To be honest though - I can't even remember who told me.

A Google search returns nothing for a Mersey Ferries Charter- nothing on their website, Merseytravels or Legislation.gov.uk

[SNL 824]

RE: Cross River Night Buses

(09/04/2015 21:25)Enviro400 Wrote:  A Google search returns nothing for a Mersey Ferries Charter- nothing on their website, Merseytravels or Legislation.gov.uk

The Royal Charter was given to the Monks and their successors (ie Merseytravel!) in perpetuity in 1300 and something!

Just checked Wikipedia it was granted by Edward III in 1330!

[E400]

RE: Cross River Night Buses

(09/04/2015 21:42)SNL 824 Wrote:  The Royal Charter was given to the Monks and their successors (ie Merseytravel!) in perpetuity in 1300 and something!

Just checked Wikipedia it was granted by Edward III in 1330!

That will explain why there is no PDF then! Haha

[YN05 WKE]

RE: Cross River Night Buses
Mersey Ferries website - 100 facts page

Look around number 63 on this list it mentions night tunnel buses replaced the ferries but no mention of a law

[Barney]

RE: Cross River Night Buses

(09/04/2015 21:55)E208 WBG Wrote:  Mersey Ferries website - 100 facts page

Look around number 63 on this list it mentions night tunnel buses replaced the ferries but no mention of a law

I have been reliably informed that the legal obligation to run a night tunnel service is a myth and that Merseytravel have acted within the law.

I find it quite remarkable that just ten years ago this service was operated with double-deckers on a ten-minute frequency at weekends. My understanding is that these days many young people now converge on Liverpool's city centre around midnight and head home when the first buses and trains recommence the next morning. Having said that I am sure that there must still be some demand for a weekend night bus service through the tunnel for those people who cannot afford the exorbitant taxi fares.

[R879 HRF]

RE: Cross River Night Buses
Its another typical Merseytravel budget cutting technique.. Remove anything remotely useful so money can be wasted elsewhere.

Everytime I've been in Liverpool while night services are in operation there has always been a few people using them, a shame really, there are a select few who rely on them.

Another thing I've noticed is them ripping out the old SMART bus shelters, they cost a fortune to fit, and a number of the Wirral ones are in fine condition, yet are being replaced to allow real time systems to be fitted - which has already been proved to be a flawed system (just like the old system) as its highly unreliable and shows mostly inaccurate information. Most are currently showing blank blue screens.

One shelter in new ferry was stripped bare (glass removed, Bare frame) repainted, rebuilt, and then removed within the same week. Yes, no word of a lie (between new ferry and rock ferry depot.) where is the sense in wasting valuable funds to refurb a bus shelter to remove it 4 days later!

The withdrawal and scrapping of st Helens eco buses wasn't helpful either- "the environment is at the heart of everything we do". If so, why not fit ticketing equipment to the buses, they managed it in Florence in Italy with tecnobuses, so why not here.

It seems Merseytravel are intent on cutting funding on anything marginally useful, I don't know about everybody else, but id prefer to keep these services along with others which face the cut axe.

[Barney]

RE: Cross River Night Buses
One does wonder what criteria is used when Merseytravel cuts funding for certain services. When Deregulation happened local authorities were given quite generous budgets to run 'socially necessary' bus services but over the decades this funding has been cut and cut until now, in this time of austerity, there is little left. My understanding is that the formula relates to cost per passenger mile. If this is the case, it begs the question how some tendered services continue to operate whilst others are cut. Last year I was told by a driver that he had done a full evening shift the previous day and only carried eight passengers the whole time. Strangely, that particular service continues to run!

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Cross River Night Buses

(10/04/2015 11:31)Barney Wrote:  One does wonder what criteria is used when Merseytravel cuts funding for certain services. When Deregulation happened local authorities were given quite generous budgets to run 'socially necessary' bus services but over the decades this funding has been cut and cut until now, in this time of austerity, there is little left. My understanding is that the formula relates to cost per passenger mile. If this is the case, it begs the question how some tendered services continue to operate whilst others are cut. Last year I was told by a driver that he had done a full evening shift the previous day and only carried eight passengers the whole time. Strangely, that particular service continues to run!

I can think of one in St Helens that can manage a round trip and carry 2 Passengers, Its a joke really when Services like this can be cut to save other more Vital Services!