HTL Buses

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: HTL Buses
To be honest I think looking at it from the real world, and not from a bunch of regulations, most people are just glad a bus has shown up that is low floor, warm and comfortable rather than worrying about how old it is. I have driven V980 XUB across various routes and never one has a real world passenger complained about its age, I have had more passengers complain about the much newer Sprinters by comparison.

Another point, V980 XUB is just a spare bus that is not allocated to a fixed contract, although it does see use 95% of the time on the Speke Circular, in the evening it can be found on a few different duties, usually the 141/36, 196/147 and occasionally the 17B. Real world thinking dictates a bus that is reliable and meets existing DDA laws that turns up and takes people from A to B is much better than no service because of some arbitrary 15 year old rule that if Merseytravel had such a problem with it running across all their tendered networks, would have been onto HTL by now over it.

Let's not forget, Stagecoach Merseyside have been using an X reg Optare Solo on the 192 lately which also falls foul of this arbitrary 15 year old rule but again, it provides a service and I guarantee you passengers do not care how old it is, it is low floor, warm, comfortable and gets them from A to B. What more do passengers want? Again, if Merseytravel had such issues, HTL and Stagecoach would be informed by now.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: HTL Buses

(27/04/2016 11:37)CX06 EBK Wrote:  To be honest I think looking at it from the real world, and not from a bunch of regulations, most people are just glad a bus has shown up that is low floor, warm and comfortable rather than worrying about how old it is. I have driven V980 XUB across various routes and never one has a real world passenger complained about its age, I have had more passengers complain about the much newer Sprinters by comparison.

Another point, V980 XUB is just a spare bus that is not allocated to a fixed contract, although it does see use 95% of the time on the Speke Circular, in the evening it can be found on a few different duties, usually the 141/36, 196/147 and occasionally the 17B. Real world thinking dictates a bus that is reliable and meets existing DDA laws that turns up and takes people from A to B is much better than no service because of some arbitrary 15 year old rule that if Merseytravel had such a problem with it running across all their tendered networks, would have been onto HTL by now over it.

Let's not forget, Stagecoach Merseyside have been using an X reg Optare Solo on the 192 lately which also falls foul of this arbitrary 15 year old rule but again, it provides a service and I guarantee you passengers do not care how old it is, it is low floor, warm, comfortable and gets them from A to B. What more do passengers want? Again, if Merseytravel had such issues, HTL and Stagecoach would be informed by now.

Couldn't agree more CX06. Absolutely spot on

Also does anybody know the fleet numbers for the new Solos yet? TIA

[RedPanda]

RE: HTL Buses

(27/04/2016 11:37)CX06 EBK Wrote:  To be honest I think looking at it from the real world, and not from a bunch of regulations, most people are just glad a bus has shown up that is low floor, warm and comfortable rather than worrying about how old it is. I have driven V980 XUB across various routes and never one has a real world passenger complained about its age, I have had more passengers complain about the much newer Sprinters by comparison.

Another point, V980 XUB is just a spare bus that is not allocated to a fixed contract, although it does see use 95% of the time on the Speke Circular, in the evening it can be found on a few different duties, usually the 141/36, 196/147 and occasionally the 17B. Real world thinking dictates a bus that is reliable and meets existing DDA laws that turns up and takes people from A to B is much better than no service because of some arbitrary 15 year old rule that if Merseytravel had such a problem with it running across all their tendered networks, would have been onto HTL by now over it.

Let's not forget, Stagecoach Merseyside have been using an X reg Optare Solo on the 192 lately which also falls foul of this arbitrary 15 year old rule but again, it provides a service and I guarantee you passengers do not care how old it is, it is low floor, warm, comfortable and gets them from A to B. What more do passengers want? Again, if Merseytravel had such issues, HTL and Stagecoach would be informed by now.

its a bus that starts, stops and is accessible for all
as long as it doesn't rattle or have a banging engine i wouldn't complain
its just an old bus that looks terrible but keeps plodding on

[Nicholas]

RE: HTL Buses

(27/04/2016 11:37)CX06 EBK Wrote:  To be honest I think looking at it from the real world, and not from a bunch of regulations, most people are just glad a bus has shown up that is low floor, warm and comfortable rather than worrying about how old it is. I have driven V980 XUB across various routes and never one has a real world passenger complained about its age, I have had more passengers complain about the much newer Sprinters by comparison.

Another point, V980 XUB is just a spare bus that is not allocated to a fixed contract, although it does see use 95% of the time on the Speke Circular, in the evening it can be found on a few different duties, usually the 141/36, 196/147 and occasionally the 17B. Real world thinking dictates a bus that is reliable and meets existing DDA laws that turns up and takes people from A to B is much better than no service because of some arbitrary 15 year old rule that if Merseytravel had such a problem with it running across all their tendered networks, would have been onto HTL by now over it.

Let's not forget, Stagecoach Merseyside have been using an X reg Optare Solo on the 192 lately which also falls foul of this arbitrary 15 year old rule but again, it provides a service and I guarantee you passengers do not care how old it is, it is low floor, warm, comfortable and gets them from A to B. What more do passengers want? Again, if Merseytravel had such issues, HTL and Stagecoach would be informed by now.

If it is anyhthing like TfGM, then they would be notified... and fined for breach of contract. In the case of TfGM, bus station supervisors log buses that are used on tenders which is then fed back to the head office.

At the end of the day, if they keep using buses they shouldn't, then they risk losing the contract and could affect gaining future work.

Yes, a bus is a bus and most passengers won't care, but they would if buses kept breaking down because of their age.

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: HTL Buses
Well as a consequence I am almost certain they do not get fined as previous experience at the company says the bus is fine to go on any route weather is passes a Merseytravel bus station or not. I think this is being overstated a little, the same company is using an X reg Renault Master as a last resort spare vehicle on a route that runs through a Merseytravel station twice an hour with no real issues from Merseytravel.

It's fine saying passengers would be bothered if it was breaking down due to its age but statistically it is much more reliable than the newer Optare Solos operated. There is a lot of assumption in these posts above that the age limit exists, which talking to various people at various companies doesn't seem to be the case other than a preference and that HTL are the only company "guilty" of using "non compliant" buses. If they were, maybe I could understand the big deal being made out the situation but as nearly every operator on Merseyside could be pulled down for a breach of contract somewhere (which is unproven as certain posters above will have never seen a tender document to confirm they were indeed breaching anything) I think the discussion has really run its course.

At the end of the day, aside from V980 XUB (and as I say, the last resort useage of X338 SKJ), all of HTLs buses really range from late 2004 (54 plate) to brand new from the factory buses. Same can't be said for all the local operators on Merseyside, some of who haven't bought new buses for quite some time.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: HTL Buses
Is X338 SKJ and that 05 reg thing thats been out a couple of days recently even DDA?

It is worth pointing out that no other operator puts Buses over 15 Years old on a contract anymore and now Stagecoach 192 works off the 217/227 the X reg Solo wont be back on there again

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: HTL Buses
No neither of them are. You did say in the Avon thread that ELC Sprytes 821/822 are both still in service along with 154 which is an S reg bus so there are other operators out there doing it. Also, the Stagecoach X reg Solo can still go onto the Kirkby Circulars that they still operate.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: HTL Buses

(28/04/2016 19:05)CX06 EBK Wrote:  No neither of them are. You did say in the Avon thread that ELC Sprytes 821/822 are both still in service along with 154 which is an S reg bus so there are other operators out there doing it. Also, the Stagecoach X reg Solo can still go onto the Kirkby Circulars that they still operate.

Yes, Thats correct them 3 Sprytes are still in Service however are allocated to Commercial Services and not contracted Services so all is good, Yea i thought both where not DDA.

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: HTL Buses
As far as I am aware all (or most) of Avons work in some capacity receives funding from Merseytravel. In the same way V980 XUB could be allocated to the Garstons and 159s which are "commercial" but still receive funding from Merseytravel along with some other routes such as part of Stagecoaches 14B I believe.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: HTL Buses

(28/04/2016 19:20)CX06 EBK Wrote:  As far as I am aware all (or most) of Avons work in some capacity receives funding from Merseytravel. In the same way V980 XUB could be allocated to the Garstons and 159s which are "commercial" but still receive funding from Merseytravel along with some other routes such as part of Stagecoaches 14B I believe.

Am told that part Tenders dont need to fit to Contract specs as its only Merseytravel putting a little money into the route to keep it going, Am told thats why Cumfybus always used to allocate the T-OUB Solos to the 139/193 as they was ok on there