Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

[MX12CFE]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
Cant believe 15 years has passed already! Wonder how much longer the Atlanteans and Titans would have remained in service for if MTL were still going? I know they would probably have been replaced before now with the DDA legislation.

[Metroline1511]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
I reckon bigger rationalisations have occurred with MTL taken over by Arriva than had they be taken over by Stagecoach or Go-Ahead for example. Under such an alternative takeover, both operators would have wanted to remain active on some corridors that instead became Arriva North Western and Arriva MTL only.

Fast forward to the present, and we could have had even more QBPs than those that are currently shared between Arriva and Stagecoach!

I saw the suggestion "What if Arriva had to divest Speke instead?" above. Well, suppose Halton decide to sell, and they choose to sell to Arriva, with Stagecoach either not bidding as effectively or not at all. Well, then Arriva may be instructed to divest Speke!

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
I thibk things nay have been more interesting if St Helens had been divested given the cross boundary opportunities.

[wirralbus]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
I think Arriva may have never come in and bought MTL if St Helens or speke had been the depots divested .

As Arriva was operating in Merseyside already they did know where the lucrative routes where and where the problems routes are .

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
Some interesting posts.

If MTL could have survived and not been sold on to Arriva or another big ‘group’ I reckon Arriva would’ve taken over CMT and maybe some of the smaller independents doing commercial work like Merseyline and LMS. It’s well known MTL tried to acquire Halton Transport in the mid 90’s so its possible they along with Chester CT/Preston/Warrington BT could’ve been purchased by MTL and allow better expansion opportunities than their ill-fated moves into Greater Manchester. I’m not so sure former independents like Liverbus and Village would’ve been kept on but I’m sure the bulk of their work (Liverbus particularly) would’ve been kept on with the main garages at Green Lane and Speke just like Gillmoss inherited all of the Fareway work in 1997. I also reckon that marginal but reasonably used services like the 11 and 91 in Liverpool for example would’ve continued and evening services in the Kirkby area would not be ever hour as they are now. Basically MTL and an enlarged Arriva would’ve been very similar to the Arriva/Stagecoach situation we have now. Not so sure MTL would’ve brought more double decks into Liverpool but some would’ve been needed and I think eventually we’d have had similar issues to overcrowding on the popular corridors in Liverpool – especially so if MTL stuck with Dart SLF’s for new purchases and Arriva went further into Mr BHind’s midibus policy too. Sooner or later MTL would’ve needed a major fleet replacement in the early 2000’s as by 1999 some of the MTL fleet was IMHO becoming very tired and long in the tooth. Whether that was due to the financial problems MTL had by then though is another matter.

It may have been interesting to see what would’ve happened if First, Go Ahead or Stagecoach had have taken over MTL. I reckon Arriva would’ve upped their presence in Liverpool and if First had have got MTL they’d have most likely would’ve had to divest their Wirral and Chester operations. Go Ahead would have been interesting too and we may have seen the ex-MTL operations becoming very similar to the brand-led operations of Go North East in particular cross river and the popular Merseyside bus corridors.

I do feel though whichever of these ‘groups’ got their hands on MTL or if MTL themselves became a ‘plc’ some form rationalisation, (service cuts, job losses) would’ve been on the agenda.

Would things be better or worse now with MTL or someone other than Arriva/Stagecoach? I don’t know but I think some of the service cuts on Merseyside (not all Arriva’s fault) and the questionable switch to the overcrowded Dart sized vehicles in Liverpool were aspects of things I didn’t really like since the end of MTL.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
What if St Helens had been divested and Blazefield/Transdev had bought it. I think we would have routes like the GM 34 return as I know they were keen on long interurban routes at the time and maybe might have wrestled the X4 (St Helens - Warrington - Trafford Centre) off Arriva. Also if First had have got it, we would have seen more links into Greater Manchester.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
If i remember correctly GO AHEAD wanted to buy GTL but stagecoach come in with an higher bid and GO AHEAD was intrested in buying ARRIVA when the sale to S.N.C.F collapsed but DB stepped in and took it before them so things could of been a lot different on merseyside.

[wirralbus]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
Lets now see which direction public bus transportation takes after the General Election in May , I do wonder how long it will be before there is some change in the big boys of bus transportation.

[SLTRegular]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva
I Miss Northwestern More than MTL but i think thats because i always viewed Northwestern as buying Superior quality vehicles (Excluding the B10B's with MTL) and Northwestern ran later and more frequent services here.

[Bevan Price]

RE: Fifteen years since the sale of MTL to Arriva

(11/03/2015 12:24)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  Would things be better or worse now with MTL or someone other than Arriva/Stagecoach? I don’t know but I think some of the service cuts on Merseyside (not all Arriva’s fault) and the questionable switch to the overcrowded Dart sized vehicles in Liverpool were aspects of things I didn’t really like since the end of MTL.

But don't forget - it was MTL that ordered the Marshall Darts for use on the 79.....