D&G Bus

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(05/06/2018 20:03)iMarkeh Wrote:  I never noticed that on the timetables at Knutsford and I couldn't find a specific timetable online to work out how it could possibly work. Interesting how far Holmeswood are coming just for school and contract work? It will be likely they all work together if they have contracts in the area.
I'm sure the services were every 20 minutes not every few minutes. It wouldn't hurt D&G to have a decker though. They could use it on the 188, Barclays and as a shuttle or lunch bus at Knutsford inbetween.
If there were more buses to more destinations, would that possibly help the fact of everyone arriving into Knutsford train station? For example use an 89 to extend there. Save everyone arriving in one place therefore reducing the crowding. I suppose you also have to look at the fact D&G can have standing passengers whereas Holmeswood can't on their coaches.
D&G Could have 1 decker running every 20 minutes and have 2 normal buses. If they run hourly on the 27, then they will cater for Macclesfield and Chelford. I think the whole Barclays network needs to look at more destinations rather than more trips to Knutsford. If you find out where the workers are coming from, a few trips from further destination will probably be more beneficial.
Wilmslow could just be one extended 88, Northwich could be an 89A (Northwich, Lostock Gralam, Plumley, Radbroke Hall, Knutsford), Macc and Chelford on the 27. Crewe already has it's own coach already. All of this could reduce how many trips are needed. The 88, 89A and 27 could all work with D&Gs existing buses but it reduces the amount they would have to pay out for special coaches as only Crewe journeys would be needed.

Are you forgetting Holmeswood have depots in Anderton (Northwich) and Congleton? https://www.holmeswoodcoaches.com/depots.html There probably isn't another operator with a depot closer to St Nicholas High School, which is where one of the services they run to Knutsford originates from.

There used to be more than one coach used on the Knutsford to Radbroke Hall shuttles but that may have changed. Someone told me that Barclays had reduced the number of people from India who get put up in accommodation in Altrincham/South Manchester and increased the number in Macclesfield but when I posted that previously (when Howards were running the 27) 'The H Man' said there had been no noticeable change in the number of passengers using the 27.

I made the point about one big bus with a slight route diversion being better than 88 and 188 services at similar times when Cheshire East did the bus consultation but that fell on deaf ears. The very far point of the 188 is near Mobberley station, so there's not really much point in running a bus that far out!

I'm not sure the 89A idea would be a good one. It would probably take over half an hour and not serve any of the places which needs the 89 - Knutsford, Lostock and Northwich have an alternative faster train, the bus is really for those who get to get to/from Tabley, Pickmere and Wincham who don't have an alternative train. While I said there's overcrowding on the trains it's between Altrincham and Knutsford in the morning and between Knutsford and Altrincham in the evening. The trains between Knutsford and Northwich rarely have more passengers than seats, except if there's been disruption or if there's a special event on e.g. Chester Races.

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(06/06/2018 08:52)knutstransport Wrote:  Are you forgetting Holmeswood have depots in Anderton (Northwich) and Congleton? https://www.holmeswoodcoaches.com/depots.html There probably isn't another operator with a depot closer to St Nicholas High School, which is where one of the services they run to Knutsford originates from.

There used to be more than one coach used on the Knutsford to Radbroke Hall shuttles but that may have changed. Someone told me that Barclays had reduced the number of people from India who get put up in accommodation in Altrincham/South Manchester and increased the number in Macclesfield but when I posted that previously (when Howards were running the 27) 'The H Man' said there had been no noticeable change in the number of passengers using the 27.

I made the point about one big bus with a slight route diversion being better than 88 and 188 services at similar times when Cheshire East did the bus consultation but that fell on deaf ears. The very far point of the 188 is near Mobberley station, so there's not really much point in running a bus that far out!

I'm not sure the 89A idea would be a good one. It would probably take over half an hour and not serve any of the places which needs the 89 - Knutsford, Lostock and Northwich have an alternative faster train, the bus is really for those who get to get to/from Tabley, Pickmere and Wincham who don't have an alternative train. While I said there's overcrowding on the trains it's between Altrincham and Knutsford in the morning and between Knutsford and Altrincham in the evening. The trains between Knutsford and Northwich rarely have more passengers than seats, except if there's been disruption or if there's a special event on e.g. Chester Races.

Yes I am. I was thinking Ormskirk is a long way to travel everyday for a few Barclays trips.

There may still be more than one coach and they just dupe. I never saw the coaches, I just had a quick look at the timetable in the bus station. I suppose with the accommodation for the people from india, it all depends where the accommodation is for people to use the 27 and also depends how much pay they get and if Barclays give hire cars or whatever (unlikely but possible if they are moving them from India).

The only difference I can see between the 88 and 188 running separately is that the 88 takes onward passengers so some seats would be needed for them where as the 188 is technically just a school bus so if that is full with kids, that is fine but when you add existing passengers onto it, you are probably looking at a bigger bus being needed. Just depends if D&G have one that could be used on the 88s between the schools. If not, they would be looking at more costs for another tender. I suppose another aspect is that the 88 doesn't go near the school so you are going to confuse passengers (both on the bus and on timetables) by it stopping basically at the bus station to then go to the school and then go back to the bus station. It depends how you look at it I suppose. You have to remember though, the top extension of the 188 may still have pupils and it may be part of the councils school transport policy to provide transport for them and so you either use the existing bus in the area or you use a minibus which could cost more as it is another vehicle you are funding.

Overcrowding isn't so much of an issue on Northwich - Knutsford but it is still very busy. It is something which could and should be addressed. Even if 30 people move onto the 89A, it is 30 people off the train saving the staff money. The reason I said 89A was only because it served Northwich and Knutsford but on a different route. It wasn't meant to replace an 89 bus but rather an extra. If there are so many people in Altrincham heading into Knutsford, could it be worth D&G introducing a service there. Cheap direct bus compared to an overcrowded train and a bus.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
45 on the 88 service today, no idea when that bus came up to Wincham, as it doesn't look dis-similar to 49/50 which have been used for a couple of months it doesn't stand out as a different bus.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
Made a return journey on the 88/89 service today which I would have usually made by train but due to the RMT Northern strike wasn't possible.

On the outbound service the bus arrived 15 minutes late at the bus stop I picked it up at. Part way through a driver changeover was scheduled, despite the bus being late the driver who was being relieved want to stay and chat to the replacement driver, fortunately the replacement driver ignored him and got on with driving the service.

On the return journey the bus arrived at Knutsford bus station early. However, the driver had been informed the depot wanted to change the bus over (despite it clearly being advertised in the timetable as a through service with no change of bus) and consequently had to wait for the depot to send a replacement bus, which took almost 15 minutes to arrive. The original bus was YJ13 HNF (106), the replacement was one of the Solos with a YJ08 registration (either 49 or 50), whichever it was it had a cracked window at the front and doors which didn't properly shut. No idea why the depot decided to remove a bus which seemed to be working perfectly well and replace it was a bus which looked like it needed attention. The driver didn't seem too impressed with the change of vehicle.

With the RMT Northern strike D&G have the chance to win over new passengers but it looks like they can't be arsed to do that.

It also seems D&G can't even get their own website to correspond with what the drivers are doing. It states today and tomorrow due to the Cheshire Show Pickmere and Wincham won't be served by the 89 - Wincham is being served but the stop on the A556 in Tabley by Pickmere Lane is not, despite their website saying that stop is being served. The route change does mean some buses are getting an extended run on a 60mph road - fortunately, no Streetlites in evidence!

[M60lad]

RE: D&G Bus
Maybe just maybe Knutsfordtransport the original bus that you were on was due an Inspection or needed back at the depot for another reason and it was swapped at Knutsford as that was probably the closest place on route for it to be swapped.

It does happen to other operators as well, I remember being on a MCT 217 from Ashton-Manchester once and we had a vehicle swap at Alan Touring Way (Etihad Stadium), obviously Levenshulme needed the current vehicle on it back for some reason.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(20/06/2018 05:46)M60lad Wrote:  Maybe just maybe Knutsfordtransport the original bus that you were on was due an Inspection or needed back at the depot for another reason and it was swapped at Knutsford as that was probably the closest place on route for it to be swapped.

It does happen to other operators as well, I remember being on a MCT 217 from Ashton-Manchester once and we had a vehicle swap at Alan Touring Way (Etihad Stadium), obviously Levenshulme needed the current vehicle on it back for some reason.

It would seem more logical to have swapped the bus at Northwich given the service starts there, the bus is sat idle there for 25 minutes between services and Northwich is closer to both the Wincham and Crewe depots.

The change also meant the 88 service which would pick up the St Ambrose pupils at around 4pm would have been a 28 seater instead of a 35.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(01/06/2018 23:53)iMarkeh Wrote:  The whole Wincham thing is a mess. I don't think D&G know about their fuel rebate. Removing that last Northwich bound trip rather than cutting it at Wincham and all the buses running dead to Wilmslow (despite the fact they pass Knutsford bus station to get there). They could just have an 88X running the same way they run NIS. Difference being they could get 1 passenger. It is a few quid more than they are getting running NIS and even if you get no one, you get the 30% fuel rebate. That could save the council some money (Given 2 buses start at Wilmslow. 1 starts in Macclesfield and the other in Northwich). Though each day the amount of rebate might be low, in the end, it all adds up. The council could possibly create another route with the savings by having placement routes.

Based on an email I've seen from TSS it seems the TC is monitoring the punctuality on the 88/89 services, which is the primary reason for the extra time being added in to the timetable. I guess the axing of the 88A will mean the 88 will likely have more tickets/passes to issue/scan between Wilmslow and Knutsford as well.

It seems the withdrawal of the last Knutsford-Northwich is because D&G and Cheshire East have agreed a later Knutsford-Macclesfield service should be more viable than the last Knutsford-Northwich, so Peter is being robbed to pay Paul. However, it does mean one bus will have to run back to Wincham from Macclesfield at the end of the day, instead of from Northwich. Even if they envisage the driver at least sometimes taking the bus back via Lower Peover and Plumley, why not run it in passenger service as far as Chelford.

In the case of why won't they run the 17:50 Altrincham to Knutsford in service to Wincham, perhaps D&G no longer want the council to get the impression that services will continue to run if the council stop funding them?

[iMarkeh]

RE: D&G Bus

(20/06/2018 09:51)knutstransport Wrote:  Based on an email I've seen from TSS it seems the TC is monitoring the punctuality on the 88/89 services, which is the primary reason for the extra time being added in to the timetable. I guess the axing of the 88A will mean the 88 will likely have more tickets/passes to issue/scan between Wilmslow and Knutsford as well.

It seems the withdrawal of the last Knutsford-Northwich is because D&G and Cheshire East have agreed a later Knutsford-Macclesfield service should be more viable than the last Knutsford-Northwich, so Peter is being robbed to pay Paul. However, it does mean one bus will have to run back to Wincham from Macclesfield at the end of the day, instead of from Northwich. Even if they envisage the driver at least sometimes taking the bus back via Lower Peover and Plumley, why not run it in passenger service as far as Chelford.

In the case of why won't they run the 17:50 Altrincham to Knutsford in service to Wincham, perhaps D&G no longer want the council to get the impression that services will continue to run if the council stop funding them?

This is what I mean. It is mental how they are running it. All the dead millage. As I said, the 30% fuel rebate though it isn't a lot, it could reduce the cost to the council in a roundabout sort of way. Plus if 1 person uses it, that is £2-£3 back into the pot to keep funding the service or to fund a different service. At the end of the day, the more money a councils gets coming in, the more it can spend.

As the 88 is fully funded, it is unlikely to be ran commercially. It could go under DeMinims if D&G found profitable areas. It all helps to put money back into the council. I suppose it isn't just a D&G issue, it is a CEC issue as they also haven't thought of the dead millage but at the same time, when it went out to tender, they need it to not show favour to any company but now D&G have the contract, it is certainly something they should be looking into.

Regarding the Macc dead millage, there should be an 88X. An 88 to Chelford then carries on through Ollerton straight up to Knutsford then as an 89 to Wincham. Even that would help. Same route a driver would run. Difference being it is in service possibly making money.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus

(20/06/2018 23:17)iMarkeh Wrote:  This is what I mean. It is mental how they are running it. All the dead millage. As I said, the 30% fuel rebate though it isn't a lot, it could reduce the cost to the council in a roundabout sort of way. Plus if 1 person uses it, that is £2-£3 back into the pot to keep funding the service or to fund a different service. At the end of the day, the more money a councils gets coming in, the more it can spend.

As the 88 is fully funded, it is unlikely to be ran commercially. It could go under DeMinims if D&G found profitable areas. It all helps to put money back into the council. I suppose it isn't just a D&G issue, it is a CEC issue as they also haven't thought of the dead millage but at the same time, when it went out to tender, they need it to not show favour to any company but now D&G have the contract, it is certainly something they should be looking into.

Regarding the Macc dead millage, there should be an 88X. An 88 to Chelford then carries on through Ollerton straight up to Knutsford then as an 89 to Wincham. Even that would help. Same route a driver would run. Difference being it is in service possibly making money.

Currently the 13:45 Altrincham to Macclesfield is only funded as far as Knutsford, while the 15:45 Macclesfield to Knutsford isn't funded at all. Cheshire East ignored objections to the proposed timetable would leave no suitably timed service at the end of afternoon visiting hours at Macclesfield Hospital (2 to 4pm) because they wanted all 88 and 188 services to be covered with a PVR of 4. D&G added in the extra services by having some off-pattern 88A services and using a bus off the 88A to run the afternoon 188. The 15:45 isn't perfectly timed but it's much better than what it could have been.

I'm not sure on the exact terms of the new contract. The previous D&G 88 contract saw all revenue go back to the council (except for some Knutsford local fares due to an overlap with the 300 service.) However, the GHA contract saw a lower valued contract with some revenue retained by GHA and some revenue going back to the council, which gave GHA more of an incentive to do things that would increase passenger numbers even if they weren't required under the contract.

It used to be the case that some Macclesfield services went via Over Peover and others didn't but the reduction in frequency seems to have resulted in the services which used to go direct via the A537 between Knutsford and Chelford to have disappeared. I have no idea how D&G/Cheshire East think Radbrooke Hall can be served by a bus which isn't going to serve either Ollerton or Over Peover - do they envisage the driver choosing a route to get between Radbrooke Hall and Chelford on the day depending on road conditions?

One reason I suggested the dead mileage only running in service to Chelford is it allows some flexibility depending on traffic conditions but an alternative could be set down only between Chelford and Knutsford.

[knutstransport]

RE: D&G Bus
I think one thing that probably Cheshire West council (who part fund the 89) have missed is Lostock Gralam get's 2 different mainly 2 hourly services to Northwich in the 89 and CAT9 and they aren't well interworked.

Times from Langford Road to Northwich (Mon-Fri)
08:13 CAT9
09:13 89
10:59 CAT9
11:13 89
12:59 CAT9
13:13 89
15:03 CAT9
16:13 89
17:04 CAT9
18:13 89 (soon to be withdrawn)

It's not too bad pre 10am or post 3pm in that direction but between then you have 2 buses in a 120 minute period and they are within 15 minutes of each other.

Lostock Gralam bound from Northwich
07:05 89
07:08 CAT9
09:55 89
10:20 CAT9
11:55 89
12:20 CAT9
13:55 89
14:20 CAT9
15:40 CAT9
16:55 89
16:57 CAT9
18:25 CAT9

Overall much worse!

Lostock Gralam is also a place where a significant number of people are dependent on public transport, while it also has a train to Northwich the station in Northwich isn't conveniently located for the town centre, especially if you've got a lot of shopping or a baby in a pushchair.