Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

[Conbus]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 14:39)knutstransport Wrote:  Is the 82 currently operated commercially or on a tender? If it's commercially maybe Arriva will still be interested if they can get a subsidy but then if it goes out to tender maybe other operators like Aintree Coachline, D&G, Stagecoach, Howards and Arrowebrook could be interested?

I can see stagecoach taking this route on to be honest

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(11/09/2018 07:45)knutstransport Wrote:  GHA used to operate a mainly half-hourly service, so it might be the lower frequency makes it less attractive. GHA also seemed to make out Tarvin-Chester was a significant flow when Routemaster started a C84 to replace withdrawn Arriva journeys so maybe if there were a lot of Tarvin passengers on a 2pm 82 service they now travel on the 14:07 84 service?

No, when I saw it busy it was the Arriva Saph decker back when Frodsham Street was closed. (the closure of Frodsham street is only mentioned to give a rough time period).

(11/09/2018 07:48)knutstransport Wrote:  Warrington don't have a record of offering low costs for tendered services. They did used to do quite well at picking up village contracts in Cheshire by submitting a bid which would incorporate the requirement in to a through Warrington service e.g. Northwich to Lach Dennis as an extension of a Warrington-Northwich service, which presumably won on quality scoring rather than pricing.

Though they do want a lot for their buses, I wouldn't rule out Warrington. Didn't they win the TFGM tender in Wigan which was standalone? They do seem to be taking on a lot more work. Whether that be because they are desperate for money with council cuts or whether that is due to them realising there is a lot more ways to make money using vehicles with would normally just be say in the depot, I don't know but looking at all the rails and schools they are now running, i would give them a chance. Not a big one but I do think they might be in the running (they have the spare buses which others don't really have)

(11/09/2018 08:05)dca529x Wrote:  The comments re Howards are I think a little unfair. They are a business and have to make a profit, but they do/did provide a quality service which is a step up from most in the CEC area. CEC has demonstrated quite graphically it's spectacular disinterest in bus service provision and nothing will change there. The lowest cost/absolute minimum service will win out.

Oh yes, I do agree. They are a business out to make a profit. No argument there. Though they provide a quality service, that means less and less in recent years. Cost is where councils look. GHA, RJ of Wem, EasyCoach for example. It isn't just CEC who will go for the lowest cost. Almost all councils do. I think part of the thing is that Howards lease in their buses for service where as other bus companies own the buses they use on tenders. Leasing the buses will increase their cost. I don't know their drivers wage but I would assume higher than average for an independant.

You can make a profit putting in low. You just don't make as much profit. I suppose its a weigh up of 1 tender at £10k profit or 3 tenders at £4k profit. Do you put all your eggs in one basket and try to make a lot on one tender or do you focus on lots of little tenders which can make the same if not more money. D&G, HTL and Avon make a lot from this way of working.

(11/09/2018 10:33)Conbus Wrote:  I can see stagecoach taking this route on to be honest

Unless they use the 9 bus and the G3 bus, there is no space. 1 solo and 1 dart would be interesting on the 82 to say the least. I have heard some things about Stagecoach tendering and if they are true, Stagecoach might be out the running before they have started (Look at the loss of the G3, stagecoach wouldn't lose a contract when they are on such a winning streak. Arriva would not have undercut as they never do)

[mr t]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot
MASSIVELY off topic again...yawn

[chester285]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(11/09/2018 14:59)iMarkeh Wrote:  No, when I saw it busy it was the Arriva Saph decker back when Frodsham Street was closed. (the closure of Frodsham street is only mentioned to give a rough time period).

Though they do want a lot for their buses, I wouldn't rule out Warrington. Didn't they win the TFGM tender in Wigan which was standalone? They do seem to be taking on a lot more work. Whether that be because they are desperate for money with council cuts or whether that is due to them realising there is a lot more ways to make money using vehicles with would normally just be say in the depot, I don't know but looking at all the rails and schools they are now running, i would give them a chance. Not a big one but I do think they might be in the running (they have the spare buses which others don't really have)

Oh yes, I do agree. They are a business out to make a profit. No argument there. Though they provide a quality service, that means less and less in recent years. Cost is where councils look. GHA, RJ of Wem, EasyCoach for example. It isn't just CEC who will go for the lowest cost. Almost all councils do. I think part of the thing is that Howards lease in their buses for service where as other bus companies own the buses they use on tenders. Leasing the buses will increase their cost. I don't know their drivers wage but I would assume higher than average for an independant.

You can make a profit putting in low. You just don't make as much profit. I suppose its a weigh up of 1 tender at £10k profit or 3 tenders at £4k profit. Do you put all your eggs in one basket and try to make a lot on one tender or do you focus on lots of little tenders which can make the same if not more money. D&G, HTL and Avon make a lot from this way of working.

Unless they use the 9 bus and the G3 bus, there is no space. 1 solo and 1 dart would be interesting on the 82 to say the least. I have heard some things about Stagecoach tendering and if they are true, Stagecoach might be out the running before they have started (Look at the loss of the G3, stagecoach wouldn't lose a contract when they are on such a winning streak. Arriva would not have undercut as they never do)

Unless they use the 9 bus and the G3 bus, there is no space. 1 solo and 1 dart would be interesting on the 82 to say the least. I have heard some things about Stagecoach tendering and if they are true, Stagecoach might be out the running before they have started (Look at the loss of the G3, stagecoach wouldn't lose a contract when they are on such a winning streak. Arriva would not have undercut as they never do)

And thats a big If!

[CTL45]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(10/09/2018 16:11)iMarkeh Wrote:  It has now apparently been sent out to tender.

Well it's not come out through the normal channel so I don't think that's right.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(11/09/2018 18:59)CTL45 Wrote:  Well it's not come out through the normal channel so I don't think that's right.

What is the normal channel? I have checked TheChest but no bus tenders show up on there bar the Merseytravel ones.

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot
If the council considers it an emergency contract then they might not advertise it through the normal channels but then any emergency contract would only be short term.

[CTL45]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot
D&G have registered an 82 service from 29 October according to the TC website. No start or end point is listed but given that Arriva's Northwich - Chester 82 ends around the same date I think its safe to assume its the same service. Interestingly there is no subsidy support.

[knutstransport]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(14/09/2018 14:18)CTL45 Wrote:  D&G have registered an 82 service from 29 October according to the TC website. No start or end point is listed but given that Arriva's Northwich - Chester 82 ends around the same date I think its safe to assume its the same service. Interestingly there is no subsidy support.

It's possible that Cheshire West contacted operators asking them to consider running a 82 replacement service giving details about loadings, prior to putting it out to tender. Although, don't read too much in to "Subsidy support: no", I'm pretty sure when the 89 first appeared without the details filled in it said "Subsidy support: no" but changed when the details were filled in.

[Metroline1511]

RE: Arriva Buses Wales - Chester Depot

(14/09/2018 14:18)CTL45 Wrote:  D&G have registered an 82 service from 29 October according to the TC website. No start or end point is listed but given that Arriva's Northwich - Chester 82 ends around the same date I think its safe to assume its the same service. Interestingly there is no subsidy support.

I am fortunate to have been on an Arriva 82 in January, especially as it was part of a wider Cheshire & Wrexham trip. Furthermore, it was a Sapphire Enviro400.

I doubt that a D&G minibus would have sufficient capacity for the route.