Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

[mrd97]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(16/02/2019 08:03)L401CJF Wrote:  Whilst not on topic of the current consultations, the 1,1A,1B,1C circular routes in Moreton on the Wirral have kicked up a huge fuss since they replaced the 901 route in the Wirral bus review. They have popped up in local papers a few times now , im not sure if they have changed since first implemented, but they cover more areas than the 901 used to, and i suppose is fair enough in the day as handy for the old dears as it serves the little roads in the estates that the big buses dont.

However it runs until near midnight, or rather some of them do. I can't comment from the day time as im never up that way, but whenever you see it at night 9/10 times it has no passengers on it, occasionally just 1. The majority of the route is within walking distance ofthe 38A/423 at night with exception of Moreton shore. Seems a lot of money for such a 'necessary' route that carrys mostly fresh air especially when money is so tight with funding. What is even more frustrating is that at night it was just as busy when it was the 901 - mostly fresh air, so no idea what they were thinking! There won't be any more complaints about this route now, as the residents have their beloved bus coverage but Merseytravel dont seem to care how many people actually use it. It must cost them hundreds to run the bus each night, and for the sake of a couple of passengers , a lot of which just get it because its the first bus that comes when they could get a 423, seems a waste of public money when it could be contributing to a route such as the much missed hospital route 118/119 - which oddly still runs on christmas day. When i contacted merseytravel as to why the 118 was still running on christmas day despite being axed 364 days a year, the response was (no joke) it's a vital link and people need to visit the hospital. Clearly only on christmas day though? Anyway rant over and back to topic!

Couldn’t agree more. I do think the Moreton Circulars are very confusing routes. I suggested running a 901 from Curlew Way, down to Edgehill Road, Bermuda Road, Saugall Road, Saugall Massie Village, Borrowdale Road, Moreton Cross, and then do a Circular to and from Ross Avenue (serving Moreton Shore in one direction and Leasowe Station in another). Much simpler route and would still have a PVR of 1, and all current roads would still be served on the 1/1A/1B/1C. They’re not particularly well used routes, and certainly don’t warrant a late evening service. Perhaps running it every day until about 7/8 pm? I also don’t understand why if Saugall Massie gets an evening and Sunday service on 1B, why they need to have the 38A go down here. The timetable for the 38/38A in the evenings in particular is an absolute mess. The 118/119 were fairly well used for supported services, and I was outraged when they were withdrawn. It was routes like this that should of been protected, rather than running dead air round little roads in Moreton at 11 at night. I’ve been on the 119 on a Sunday daytime and it was nearly a full load, which is exceptional for a subsidised service. I am aware there is increasingly limited funding, but Mersyetravel don’t half waste what they have, and don’t really any idea how to create a reliable, accessible bus network that they claim to want to provide.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(16/02/2019 08:03)L401CJF Wrote:  Whilst not on topic of the current consultations, the 1,1A,1B,1C circular routes in Moreton on the Wirral have kicked up a huge fuss since they replaced the 901 route in the Wirral bus review. They have popped up in local papers a few times now , im not sure if they have changed since first implemented, but they cover more areas than the 901 used to, and i suppose is fair enough in the day as handy for the old dears as it serves the little roads in the estates that the big buses dont.

However it runs until near midnight, or rather some of them do. I can't comment from the day time as im never up that way, but whenever you see it at night 9/10 times it has no passengers on it, occasionally just 1. The majority of the route is within walking distance ofthe 38A/423 at night with exception of Moreton shore. Seems a lot of money for such a 'necessary' route that carrys mostly fresh air especially when money is so tight with funding. What is even more frustrating is that at night it was just as busy when it was the 901 - mostly fresh air, so no idea what they were thinking! There won't be any more complaints about this route now, as the residents have their beloved bus coverage but Merseytravel dont seem to care how many people actually use it. It must cost them hundreds to run the bus each night, and for the sake of a couple of passengers , a lot of which just get it because its the first bus that comes when they could get a 423, seems a waste of public money when it could be contributing to a route such as the much missed hospital route 118/119 - which oddly still runs on christmas day. When i contacted merseytravel as to why the 118 was still running on christmas day despite being axed 364 days a year, the response was (no joke) it's a vital link and people need to visit the hospital. Clearly only on christmas day though? Anyway rant over and back to topic!

The 901 was much more liked due to the fact it linked with train times. The new routes don't. The reasoning for the extra 901s will be due to the fact the 106 no longer does Ross Avenue. The 901 could be brought back on an hourly frequency but you wouldn't get it to Ross Avenue and back in time. That would leave that area unserved.
I don't think there is an easy option for it. Whichever way you go for it, you will upset someone.
I don't have a clue on the night runs but a lot of it seems to be filling in for time.

Having looked at the before and after passenger numbers, I think the 901 might be the better option but look to amend it where possible so that it has the time to extend to/from Ross Avenue.

[MTL0201]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(16/02/2019 08:41)mrd97 Wrote:  Couldn’t agree more. I do think the Moreton Circulars are very confusing routes. I suggested running a 901 from Curlew Way, down to Edgehill Road, Bermuda Road, Saugall Road, Saugall Massie Village, Borrowdale Road, Moreton Cross, and then do a Circular to and from Ross Avenue (serving Moreton Shore in one direction and Leasowe Station in another). Much simpler route and would still have a PVR of 1, and all current roads would still be served on the 1/1A/1B/1C. They’re not particularly well used routes, and certainly don’t warrant a late evening service. Perhaps running it every day until about 7/8 pm? I also don’t understand why if Saugall Massie gets an evening and Sunday service on 1B, why they need to have the 38A go down here. The timetable for the 38/38A in the evenings in particular is an absolute mess. The 118/119 were fairly well used for supported services, and I was outraged when they were withdrawn. It was routes like this that should of been protected, rather than running dead air round little roads in Moreton at 11 at night. I’ve been on the 119 on a Sunday daytime and it was nearly a full load, which is exceptional for a subsidised service. I am aware there is increasingly limited funding, but Mersyetravel don’t half waste what they have, and don’t really any idea how to create a reliable, accessible bus network that they claim to want to provide.

I used to catch the old 901 regully, was handy as that connected with trains at Leasowe, main reason the 901 existed, the current 1 group replacement routes have lost that connection, also there's no buses down Borrowdale Road & Overchurch Road other than the 1B, i have a couple of friends that live halfway down & can be a bit of a hike to either Overchurch Road terminus or Hoylake Road the 1B can be handy, the Moreton Shore route is a replacement for the 106 but hardly adequate there is a block of flats & houses were the old Hospital used to be but most that live around there own cars.

Big loss for me are the early morning routes 107/108/208, i used to use these a lot connecting with the train at Hamilton Square, quite disgusting Merseytravel just withdrawn the routes fob of with the usual other routes excuse, however the other routes don't start until 7-7.30am these operated before then, a few passengers used these routes as well, although there's an extra early 38, it's still later than what the first 208 was.

[Walton 46]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations
New Consultation up: Stagecoach are proposing to withdraw the night bus on the 1 between Liverpool and Chester

https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/about-us...ation.aspx

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations
Have to admit am surprised it lasted this long

[mrd97]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations
Of course Merseytravel will say it has nothing to do with them and leave Wirral and Liverpool isolated between Midnight and 7am. Whilst this is a commercial decision, they should be running a night service, even just a tunnel shuttle bus between Sir Thomas Street and Birkenhead Bus Station. Taxis are very expensive, and they used to run the 150 for a while, even when there was a network of Arriva night buses (which arguably wouldn’t of warranted running a subsidised night bus, however now it’s vital). Like the case with an evening and Sunday service for Beechwood and Noctorum, they won’t even consider looking into proposals. Those estates will never see an evening or Sunday service again. Which is despicable. They’re very Liverpool Centric and thus in my opinion, the other boroughs of Merseyside are cast asunder. The night bus (1) has always been busy from Liverpool, I reckon Stagecoach could run at a profit having a couple of journeys from Liverpool to Ellesmere Port (in that direction only). Knew this wouldn’t last. Is there any point in the ‘proposal’? It’s not like they’re going to make a difference anyway. The 408/09 consultations would have have had many responses saying they need the service, and they withdrew it anyway. I reckon these consultations are just there to look like they’re going to listen to feedback, when in reality the decision has already been made

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(18/02/2019 18:14)mrd97 Wrote:  Of course Merseytravel will say it has nothing to do with them and leave Wirral and Liverpool isolated between Midnight and 7am. Whilst this is a commercial decision, they should be running a night service, even just a tunnel shuttle bus between Sir Thomas Street and Birkenhead Bus Station. Taxis are very expensive, and they used to run the 150 for a while, even when there was a network of Arriva night buses (which arguably wouldn’t of warranted running a subsidised night bus, however now it’s vital). Like the case with an evening and Sunday service for Beechwood and Noctorum, they won’t even consider looking into proposals. Those estates will never see an evening or Sunday service again. Which is despicable. They’re very Liverpool Centric and thus in my opinion, the other boroughs of Merseyside are cast asunder. The night bus (1) has always been busy from Liverpool, I reckon Stagecoach could run at a profit having a couple of journeys from Liverpool to Ellesmere Port (in that direction only). Knew this wouldn’t last. Is there any point in the ‘proposal’? It’s not like they’re going to make a difference anyway. The 408/09 consultations would have have had many responses saying they need the service, and they withdrew it anyway. I reckon these consultations are just there to look like they’re going to listen to feedback, when in reality the decision has already been made

I do agree there should be a Service between Liverpool and Birkenhead but one has to ask where the funding for this service would come from

[mrd97]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(18/02/2019 18:17)T42 PVM Wrote:  I do agree there should be a Service between Liverpool and Birkenhead but one has to ask where the funding for this service would come from

Forgive me for sounding naive but as Merseytravel only replaced a small amount of Avon’s services, did they not save money by not replacing the rest? Most of not all of Avon’s services were partially subsidised to my knowledge. Services which were not replaced at all include 10/10A, 107/207/208 124/124/492/495 and 145. Some others were only replaced by funding small diversions on already commercial services.

They’ve also replaced the 84/5 (PVR 2), 77/88 (PVR 2), 80/82/83A (PVR 4) with 73 (PVR 1), 80/82 (PVR 1) and the 16/17 extension (extra 2 buses). And a small diversion on the 22, 38 and 418, which altogether roughly is half the number of buses required than previously. So they’ve surely saved a sgnificant amount of money here, unless I am missing something obvious. What little money they have they don’t half waste it

[Walton 46]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations
Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain what PVR means? I'm quite new to the world of buses

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Merseytravel: Bus service Consultations

(18/02/2019 18:32)mrd97 Wrote:  Forgive me for sounding naive but as Merseytravel only replaced a small amount of Avon’s services, did they not save money by not replacing the rest? Most of not all of Avon’s services were partially subsidised to my knowledge. Services which were not replaced at all include 10/10A, 107/207/208 124/124/492/495 and 145. Some others were only replaced by funding small diversions on already commercial services.

They’ve also replaced the 84/5 (PVR 2), 77/88 (PVR 2), 80/82/83A (PVR 4) with 73 (PVR 1), 80/82 (PVR 1) and the 16/17 extension (extra 2 buses). And a small diversion on the 22, 38 and 418, which altogether roughly is half the number of buses required than previously. So they’ve surely saved a sgnificant amount of money here, unless I am missing something obvious. What little money they have they don’t half waste it

The routes that have been replaced are now fully funded and at a higher cost than when Avon did it on a Part funded agreement

PVR in basic English just means the number of Buses needed to operate a Route