Abellio East Midlands Railway

[wirralbus]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
I actually think Nottingham - Norwich would be a better fit into Greater Anglia , than East Midlands .

Liverpool - Nottingham , now thats a toss up between northern and TPX , which is the better , a 195 against a 185 probably .

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(07/02/2020 15:52)wirralbus Wrote:  I actually think Nottingham - Norwich would be a better fit into Greater Anglia , than East Midlands .

Liverpool - Nottingham , now thats a toss up between northern and TPX , which is the better , a 195 against a 185 probably .

Which unit class is better than the other (which is a matter of opinion) is completely irrelevant. It'll be down to which operator actually has enough rolling stock to operate the additional services

Even when all 58 of the Class 195s have entered service Northern will not have enough to operate Liverpool-Nottingham in addition to the "Northern Connect" routes which they were ordered for. However on the other hand TPE will have more than enough units available for the additional services if the entire Class 185 fleet is retained

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
170416 and 170417 have been observed in the EMR purple livery. 170416 is currently stabled at Nottingham Eastcroft and 170417 ran from Crofton Depot to Derby Etches Park earlier today. 170418, 170419 and 170420 are imminently due to arrive from Scotrail. The 170s won't be in service till December at the earliest and will begin the phased replacement of the Class 153, 156 and 158s. With more due from West Midlands Railway when their Class 196s enter service.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(18/05/2020 21:52)ant17612 Wrote:  170416 and 170417 have been observed in the EMR purple livery. 170416 is currently stabled at Nottingham Eastcroft and 170417 ran from Crofton Depot to Derby Etches Park earlier today. 170418, 170419 and 170420 are imminently due to arrive from Scotrail. The 170s won't be in service till December at the earliest and will begin the phased replacement of the Class 153, 156 and 158s. With more due from West Midlands Railway when their Class 196s enter service.

Are 170s faster or slower than the sprinters?

[ant17612]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(18/05/2020 21:58)iMarkeh Wrote:  Are 170s faster or slower than the sprinters?

Indeed, 170s will top out at 100mph. 153 and 156s can only do 75mph and 158s will only do 90mph. 170s are also far more comfortable in my opinion which makes them suitable for long distance.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(18/05/2020 22:16)ant17612 Wrote:  Indeed, 170s will top out at 100mph. 153 and 156s can only do 75mph and 158s will only do 90mph. 170s are also far more comfortable in my opinion which makes them suitable for long distance.

What about the acceleration/brake though? Max speed means nothing if it takes forever to hit it. I’m thinking more could they decrease journey times by a few minutes.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(19/05/2020 05:37)iMarkeh Wrote:  What about the acceleration/brake though? Max speed means nothing if it takes forever to hit it. I’m thinking more could they decrease journey times by a few minutes.

According to Eversholt:

Class 158 maximum acceleration: 0.8ms-2
Class 170 maximum acceleration: 0.5ms-2

So the Class 158s have better acceleration and reach their maximum speed sooner

[knutstransport]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(19/05/2020 06:16)SK15 GZG Wrote:  According to Eversholt:

Class 158 maximum acceleration: 0.8ms-2
Class 170 maximum acceleration: 0.5ms-2

So the Class 158s have better acceleration and reach their maximum speed sooner

Not all 158s have the same type of engines - some have 350hp engines, others 400hp. I believe the ex-Wessex Trains ones have the inferior type which was why FGW kept the ex-TPE 158s and returned the ex-Wessex ones.

Based on Eversholt's acceleration graphs there's little difference up to 100km/h (62.5mph), between 100km/h and 125km/h (78mph) the 400hp 158 is noticeably better than the 170 but that isn't the case with the 350hp 158. Over 125km/h the 400hp 158 remains noticeably better than the 170 but at this range the 350hp 158 also outperforms the 170.

So the question is perhaps how much 100mph running is there, how much time can that save and is that more than the extra time spent accelerating above 62.5/78mph?

Also worth remembering the 158s have narrower doors and they are slow to open, compared to newer trains so the introduction of 170s should make it possible to reduce dwell times. It might be that they can do Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester (with calls at South Parkway, Widnes and Warrington) faster than 158s but then lose time on other sections.

As an aside Network Rail's rolling stock strategy looked at whether replacing 142s and 150s with cascaded 170s would have any effect on journey times and their models found journey times could improve on routes where there were frequent stops. Although, Northern have apparently found reliability of 170s on Harrogate stoppers isn't good.

[wirralbus]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway
I think when some 158 got built they had perkins power units in them

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Abellio East Midlands Railway

(19/05/2020 12:50)wirralbus Wrote:  I think when some 158 got built they had perkins power units in them

Yes that's correct. Those units were 158815-158862