Selwyns

[Mrboo]

RE: Selwyns

(22/04/2021 18:33)Solo40336 Wrote:  Wrong.

The PVSAR manual for regulated bus services includes numerous things that destination screens must meet, these include the position on the vehicle, size of the characters, the actual word of the destination rather than just a number, and must be illuminated.

Yes I know it very well the rules they allow paper in event of non-working screens but they have to be to a set standard, and you have to have them screen fitted.

I get emails all the time about as The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) are starting to pick up on Rail Replacement not displaying their signage correctly as just putting Rail Replacement or the bus number is not within the Public Service Vehicles Accessibility Regulations 2000

that the reason they have this.

DETR hopes that prosecutions will be unnecessary. However, prosecutions will be considered where
systematic abuse of the Regulations has taken place, or where operators deliberately flout the law. It is not
envisaged that one-off non-compliances, such as a "stopping" sign not working, would lead to
prosecution. but for short term use they can get away with it as it better to have a bus with out then no bus.


5. Enforcement and Vehicle Inspection
Enforcement
Unless an appropriate special authorisation order is in place, it is a criminal offence (under Section 40(3)
of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995) for an operator to use a regulated public service vehicle for a
local service or scheduled service if that vehicle does not conform with any relevant provision of the
Regulations.
The offence carries a fine not exceeding Level 4 on the standard scale (currently £2,500). The offence
can be both a corporate and individual one, ie both the operating company and/or an individual
responsible (e.g. director, manager or secretary) for a non-compliance with the Regulations can be
prosecuted. It is essential, therefore, that everyone involved understands the requirements of the
Regulations and their responsibilities. Operating companies may wish to set up training courses to ensure
that their staff are briefed fully on their legal obligations.
- 60 -
Department for Transport - Public Service Vehicles Accessibility Regulations 2000 - Guidance
The 1995 Act does not prescribe any authority as the one responsible for initiating prosecutions. Both the
Vehicle Inspectorate and the police may bring prosecutions for non-compliance with vehicle regulation.
The DETR hopes that prosecutions will be unnecessary. However, prosecutions will be considered where
systematic abuse of the Regulations has taken place, or where operators deliberately flout the law. It is not
envisaged that one-off non-compliances, such as a "stopping" sign not working, would lead to
prosecution. but for short term use they can get away with it as it better to have a bus with out then no bus.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reques...e.pdf.html

[Solo40336]

RE: Selwyns

(22/04/2021 21:59)Mrboo Wrote:  but for short term use they can get away with it as it better to have a bus with out then no bus.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/reques...e.pdf.html

Other than that quote you added onto the end of the regulation, where does it say Paper is allowed? Sure it says one off offences probably won't be prosecuted, that doesn't mean its permissable, its still an offence.

Its also part of the tender requirements set out by TfGM, now I dint know that side of Manchester, so I dont know if the 44 is a tender, but TfGM can and do fine operators for such things

[Mrboo]

RE: Selwyns

(23/04/2021 04:22)Solo40336 Wrote:  Other than that quote you added onto the end of the regulation, where does it say Paper is allowed? Sure it says one off offences probably won't be prosecuted, that doesn't mean its permissable, its still an offence.

Its also part of the tender requirements set out by TfGM, now I dint know that side of Manchester, so I dont know if the 44 is a tender, but TfGM can and do fine operators for such things

On a Weekend if I went by letter of the law I would have no buses in service on rail replacement. From lack of banners to 33 seater Mean you have standing racking up. It easy to nick pick but some times. Any bus is better then a broken bus or unsafe one and yes I get company's trying run them. Selwyns are not cowboys in over 9 years dealing with them I never had a breakdown or issue with a driver. So things like a bit of paper in n a window is little to care about. When you could have the likes of Uk north

[Solo40336]

RE: Selwyns

(23/04/2021 09:48)Mrboo Wrote:  On a Weekend if I went by letter of the law I would have no buses in service on rail replacement. From lack of banners to 33 seater Mean you have standing racking up. It easy to nick pick but some times. Any bus is better then a broken bus or unsafe one and yes I get company's trying run them. Selwyns are not cowboys in over 9 years dealing with them I never had a breakdown or issue with a driver. So things like a bit of paper in n a window is little to care about. When you could have the likes of Uk north

Agreed, a paper destination is better than no bus, but the point raised was that it isn't actually compliant. Nobody was calling selwyns cowboys, as for not having enough coaches if they didn't run with paper blinds. That will be exactly why its being clamped down on, because its not compliant.......

[bgbus21]

RE: Selwyns
Recent arrival here is ex Whitelaws Enviro 200MMC WW65GSW, spotted it working the 44 today. Still wears the Whitelaws grey livery, with Selwyns Web address on the back window

[knutstransport]

RE: Selwyns

(23/04/2021 04:22)Solo40336 Wrote:  Other than that quote you added onto the end of the regulation, where does it say Paper is allowed? Sure it says one off offences probably won't be prosecuted, that doesn't mean its permissable, its still an offence.

Was there not some exemption where a non-compliant vehicle can be used but it's limited to x number of days in a calendar year, so if a destination display fails the operator doesn't have to take the bus out of passenger service and cancel journeys to comply but if they don't fix it and leave it running around for weeks in that state then they can be fined?

Someone once said with TfL if there's a destination display fault then the bus has to be taken off the road. Probably makes sense in London where there can be lots of different services using the same stop and all of them are operated by red buses.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Selwyns

(27/04/2021 16:45)knutstransport Wrote:  Was there not some exemption where a non-compliant vehicle can be used but it's limited to x number of days in a calendar year, so if a destination display fails the operator doesn't have to take the bus out of passenger service and cancel journeys to comply but if they don't fix it and leave it running around for weeks in that state then they can be fined?

Someone once said with TfL if there's a destination display fault then the bus has to be taken off the road. Probably makes sense in London where there can be lots of different services using the same stop and all of them are operated by red buses.

It may be the case on commercial services but normally TFGM are pretty strict on the destinations working on there contract services.

[Mayneway]

RE: Selwyns

(27/04/2021 17:51)motormayhem1 Wrote:  It may be the case on commercial services but normally TFGM are pretty strict on the destinations working on there contract services.

If it was monitored, ie someone from TFGM actually checked that it ran then they would simply receive a penalty fine and points which could prevent them going for more tenders in the future should the points stack up.

[Citibus]

RE: Selwyns

(26/04/2021 16:56)bgbus21 Wrote:  Recent arrival here is ex Whitelaws Enviro 200MMC WW65GSW, spotted it working the 44 today. Still wears the Whitelaws grey livery, with Selwyns Web address on the back window

Selwyns WW65GSW by Ben Gleeson, on Flickr

[knutstransport]

RE: Selwyns

(27/04/2021 17:51)motormayhem1 Wrote:  It may be the case on commercial services but normally TFGM are pretty strict on the destinations working on there contract services.

I would hope that any TfGM imposed penalties do not make it a better option to not run services than to use a vehicle which doesn't meet the necessary requirements. After all while the wrong type of vehicle might breach the contract it's better for passengers than there being no vehicle at all.