Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

[MTL0201]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(07/04/2024 20:47)GMBN Wrote:  Genuine question... How was SELNEC/GMT funded back in the day?

Didn't most of the funding come from the all the councils in the SELNEC/GMT area, THINK some funding came from GM County Council too, that was before GM County Council was abolished, think it was the same set up in Merseyside after the PTE was formed.

[Rodney259]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(07/04/2024 18:25)Owl Wrote:  I share your scepticism about the funding for the Bee Network. I suspect that it will not be long before Burnham is asking for more money, and complaining about not being given enough funding from central government.

The genuine worry is that there is no spare government cash available and that is unlikely to change for a few years. I am certain that, like pre-privatisation days, buses will be stuck in a huge traffic jam behind all other sectors wanting cash (pun intended!) and all the grand ideas will quickly fade away.

[Owl]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(08/04/2024 22:05)Rodney259 Wrote:  The genuine worry is that there is no spare government cash available and that is unlikely to change for a few years. I am certain that, like pre-privatisation days, buses will be stuck in a huge traffic jam behind all other sectors wanting cash (pun intended!) and all the grand ideas will quickly fade away.

I agree - there has been an undeniable boost from the central funding for new buses, but once the initial impetus settles down, I fear that we will be back to a loss making network, with no additional funds to subsidise the service.

[Rodney259]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(09/04/2024 09:39)Owl Wrote:  I agree - there has been an undeniable boost from the central funding for new buses, but once the initial impetus settles down, I fear that we will be back to a loss making network, with no additional funds to subsidise the service.

Just read in the Manchester Evening News that it’s costing £6000-£7000 to repaint the buses into the yellow Bee livery. Manchester definitely has money to burn Oublic services must be fantastic there!

[Y458 KNF]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(07/05/2024 16:15)Rodney259 Wrote:  Just read in the Manchester Evening News that it’s costing £6000-£7000 to repaint the buses into the yellow Bee livery. Manchester definitely has money to burn Oublic services must be fantastic there!

Pretty sure it will be the operating company that’s paying for the repaint and re trims.

[Owl]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(07/05/2024 16:44)Y458 KNF Wrote:  Pretty sure it will be the operating company that’s paying for the repaint and re trims.

A FOI request has confirmed that it is TFGM who are paying for the repaints - £550k so far, with more to come. Another waste of money by Burnam.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(12/05/2024 17:51)Owl Wrote:  A FOI request has confirmed that it is TFGM who are paying for the repaints - £550k so far, with more to come. Another waste of money by Burnam.

How many repaints would occur without franchising? Obviously commercial operators recoup vehicle associated costs through fares and subsides.

Off the top of my head Go Goodwins vehicles were repainted in Diamond colours and multiple depots have transferred both to and from First Bus over the years. While some of the vehicles D&G use on the 88, 130 and 385 routes were originally in different liveries (including Go Goodwins') and Belle Vue have repainted a vehicle less than 2 years old that transferred from Little Gem.

Even though the likes of First and Arriva usually retain vehicles for their lifetime, they've both done corporate rebrands. In the case of Arriva painting some buses into Sapphire livery and then back into standard Arriva livery.

[Owl]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(12/05/2024 19:25)knutstransport Wrote:  How many repaints would occur without franchising? Obviously commercial operators recoup vehicle associated costs through fares and subsides.

Off the top of my head Go Goodwins vehicles were repainted in Diamond colours and multiple depots have transferred both to and from First Bus over the years. While some of the vehicles D&G use on the 88, 130 and 385 routes were originally in different liveries (including Go Goodwins') and Belle Vue have repainted a vehicle less than 2 years old that transferred from Little Gem.

Even though the likes of First and Arriva usually retain vehicles for their lifetime, they've both done corporate rebrands. In the case of Arriva painting some buses into Sapphire livery and then back into standard Arriva livery.

While it is true that a proportion of the fleet would have been repainted anyway, and correct that some vehicles will have had several liveries ( Stagecoach beachball, Magic bus , New Stagecoach and Bee Network for some of the Middleton buses), Bee network are paying to repaint 14 year old vehicles into the new livery. They surely cannot provide anything like a sensible service life after the repaint.

[moreton407]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3
Bus companies would repaint buses at their leisure and have a paint pot (lol) of money to pay for it, some never get a repaint but with the BeeLine repaint it's all going to be done quite quickly and it's TFGM's money that is paying for it.

[Rodney259]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising Tranche 3

(14/05/2024 09:32)moreton407 Wrote:  Bus companies would repaint buses at their leisure and have a paint pot (lol) of money to pay for it, some never get a repaint but with the BeeLine repaint it's all going to be done quite quickly and it's TFGM's money that is paying for it.

Correction! Tax payers money, locally and Nationally