Future Rail Projects

[DVL418]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(18/12/2012 11:21)First Class Wrote:  

(18/12/2012 06:47)wirralbus Wrote:  I always thought two of the long term aspirations on the Northern Line was extending from Hunts Cross to Warrington Central and from Ormskirk to Preston.

None of these extensions mooted can really take place till new stock is available as the units diagrams would be very stretched to say the least.

The only Wirral Line aspiration is down the mid wirral line but to where Woodchurch , Neston , Shotton or Wrexham .

Don't forget Ellesmere Port - Helsby - Runcorn... which, especially the Halton Curve section, has interested Merseytravel.

The Halton Curve is all in place - needs the signalling upgrading and some work to the track layout at one of the junctions.

Even Network Rail agree in VFM terms it is a 'no brainer' win-win project. Fingers crossed.

[First Class]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(19/12/2012 16:29)DVL418 Wrote:  The Halton Curve is all in place - needs the signalling upgrading and some work to the track layout at one of the junctions.

Even Network Rail agree in VFM terms it is a 'no brainer' win-win project. Fingers crossed.

When the Runcorn area is resignalled, (which will close Halton Jn and Runcorn boxes), I'm pretty sure the curve will be made bi-directional.

Potential services could be:

Northern (or their successor): Liverpool-Chester via Runcorn. Limited service Liverpool-Runcorn-Ellesmere Port. Semi-fast, e.g. Liverpool L St, Liverpool S Pkwy, Runcorn, Frodsham, Helsby, Chester. I suspect you could get a 40-45 min journey time, which is a big improvement for South Liverpool & Airport areas. Would probably have to depart Liverpool at around xx15. (You have services London Midland, xx04, TPE at xx22, London Midland xx34, Virgin at xx48, EMT at xx52.

E.g.

Liverpool 08:15
LSP 08:25
Runcorn 08:35
Frodsham 08:45
Helsby 08:50
Chester 09:00

Arriva (or their successor): Liverpool-Chester-Holyhead. Joining/dividing at Chester with a portion from Manchester or Birmingham. Couple of trains (3-5 each direction) a day only, meeting boats only. That way Liverpool-Dublin via Holyhead becomes quite attractive.

[Bevan Price]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(18/12/2012 06:47)wirralbus Wrote:  I always thought two of the long term aspirations on the Northern Line was extending from Hunts Cross to Warrington Central and from Ormskirk to Preston.

None of these extensions mooted can really take place till new stock is available as the units diagrams would be very stretched to say the least.

The only Wirral Line aspiration is down the mid wirral line but to where Woodchurch , Neston , Shotton or Wrexham .

If Hunts Cross to Warrington Central is ever electrified, I think it will be part of a 25kV scheme and continue to Manchester (eventually........)

As for Ormskirk to Preston - unlikely ever to occur over the full route. Maybe Ormskirk to Burscough some time, but too much sparsely populated territory beyond Burscough, plus the complication of mixing with 25kV electrification around Preston

[childwallblues]

RE: Future Rail Projects
I have never understood why Merseyrail continue to ignore the North Mersey Branch from Bootle Oriel Road to Aintree. A single track is still in place and sees occasional use by engineering trains.
The branch is about 3.5 miles and would open up new journey opportunities as well as saving a lot of changing at Sandhills.

[First Class]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(20/12/2012 08:46)childwallblues Wrote:  I have never understood why Merseyrail continue to ignore the North Mersey Branch from Bootle Oriel Road to Aintree. A single track is still in place and sees occasional use by engineering trains.
The branch is about 3.5 miles and would open up new journey opportunities as well as saving a lot of changing at Sandhills.

It's a matter of what service you run. Liverpool-Bootle-Ormskirk? I would personally just electrify the single line and just run it as a diversionary route or for ECS movements.

I think the reason for the neglect of this route is that it doesn't really bring any dramatic improvements to the network/area, compared to say the Halton Curve.

[teenagewasteland]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(20/12/2012 18:46)First Class Wrote:  

(20/12/2012 08:46)childwallblues Wrote:  I have never understood why Merseyrail continue to ignore the North Mersey Branch from Bootle Oriel Road to Aintree. A single track is still in place and sees occasional use by engineering trains.
The branch is about 3.5 miles and would open up new journey opportunities as well as saving a lot of changing at Sandhills.

It's a matter of what service you run. Liverpool-Bootle-Ormskirk? I would personally just electrify the single line and just run it as a diversionary route or for ECS movements.

I think the reason for the neglect of this route is that it doesn't really bring any dramatic improvements to the network/area, compared to say the Halton Curve.

I'm surprised the North Mersey Branch is still there - it sees about one train a year at the moment, and I'm fairly sure that any engineering possessions around Aintree can be accessed using the Northern Line.

Regular traffic movement on the NMB ended when Fazakerley pre-cast depot / sidings closed in 1987. That section of the line was closed and is now part of the Trans-Pennine path and a new housing estate. Fazakerley Sidings is now a nature walk, although it's fun looking for clues as to its' former occupation - BR didn't do a complete hatchet job.

Ironically, at the exact point where the NMB once joined the Liverpool-Kirkby-Wigan line, it's now where the route becomes single-tracked towards Kirkby.

[skelmersey]

RE: Future Rail Projects
From the Merseytravel document I think they favour the Skem extension.

One extract:-

The third Local Transport Plan identifies the continued expansion of Merseyrail within Goal 5 (Ensure the transport network supports the economic success of the city region by the efficient movement of people and goods). The extension to Skelmersdale through Kirkby would make best use of available capacity on the Merseyrail network as Kirkby trains currently carry fewer passengers than other Northern Line services due to the short distance between Kirkby and Liverpool relative to other branches. The extension to Skelmersdale could therefore improve the financial viability of the Merseyrail network.

[childwallblues]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(20/12/2012 18:46)First Class Wrote:  

(20/12/2012 08:46)childwallblues Wrote:  I have never understood why Merseyrail continue to ignore the North Mersey Branch from Bootle Oriel Road to Aintree. A single track is still in place and sees occasional use by engineering trains.
The branch is about 3.5 miles and would open up new journey opportunities as well as saving a lot of changing at Sandhills.

It's a matter of what service you run. Liverpool-Bootle-Ormskirk? I would personally just electrify the single line and just run it as a diversionary route or for ECS movements.

I think the reason for the neglect of this route is that it doesn't really bring any dramatic improvements to the network/area, compared to say the Halton Curve.

That is your opinion. Whilst I agree that the Halton Curve needs re-opening it is wholly outside Merseyside, whereas the North Mersey Branch is wholly within. Why do we need "dramatic improvements" anyway?

[First Class]

RE: Future Rail Projects

(29/12/2012 18:42)childwallblues Wrote:  

(20/12/2012 18:46)First Class Wrote:  

(20/12/2012 08:46)childwallblues Wrote:  I have never understood why Merseyrail continue to ignore the North Mersey Branch from Bootle Oriel Road to Aintree. A single track is still in place and sees occasional use by engineering trains.
The branch is about 3.5 miles and would open up new journey opportunities as well as saving a lot of changing at Sandhills.

It's a matter of what service you run. Liverpool-Bootle-Ormskirk? I would personally just electrify the single line and just run it as a diversionary route or for ECS movements.

I think the reason for the neglect of this route is that it doesn't really bring any dramatic improvements to the network/area, compared to say the Halton Curve.

That is your opinion. Whilst I agree that the Halton Curve needs re-opening it is wholly outside Merseyside, whereas the North Mersey Branch is wholly within. Why do we need "dramatic improvements" anyway?

"Dramatic improvements" = Good PR for politicians, hence why low level improvements rarely get off the ground. The Benefit:Cost ratio is generally designed to approve massive projects, with noticeable and immediate effects, whilst smaller, local improvements usually are allocated a low BCR rating.

What service would you implement that would use the North Mersey Branch? You could perhaps withdraw 2tph to Ormskirk (via Kirkdale) and introduce 2tph to Ormskirk (via Bootle). You still get 6tph Liverpool-Walton/Rice Lane, but Walton-Aintree would obviously see a 50% service reduction.

There are no available paths between Liverpool and Sandhills for any new services (in the day time). You would need to divert existing services.

If you re-opened stations on the North Mersey Line, (rather than just use it as an alternative route), than the "improvements" are much greater and more likely to have a good BCR.

[wirralbus]

RE: Future Rail Projects
He is right with regards the paths there is presently 12 trains an hour , in theory one every 5 mins , any more trains in that Liverpool City Centre section and you could end up with delays with a slight service pertubation and mayhem if it becomes a major problem as the turn back siding at Sandhills wouldnt be able to cope , you'd end up with services having to be turned additionally at Bank Hall , Walton and Rice lane to cope at times.