Arriva North West - Bootle Depot

[mr t]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
I really cant see how this warrants another increase surely there is no more room along Stanley Road for more passengers?? It would be better doing a new service to Netherton or increasing the 55/56s instead

[M113 YKC]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot

(11/01/2014 17:38)mr t Wrote:  I really cant see how this warrants another increase surely there is no more room along Stanley Road for more passengers?? It would be better doing a new service to Netherton or increasing the 55/56s instead

I can see where you're coming from, however the services are regularly overcrowded between Netherton and Bootle with passengers for Liverpool and vice-versa. It's not really about them needing to pick-up along Stanley Road; it's just the quickest way between Bootle and Liverpool with passengers bound for Liverpool from areas where just the 52/52A serve, if that makes sense!

[Barney]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
I have a few observations regarding the 52/52A services. Firstly, I am surprised and pleased to note that the daytime frequency is to be enhanced to every 6 minutes. Presumably the management has accepted the drivers' observations regarding loadings but still consider a move to full-time conversion to double-deck operation a step too far.

Having said that, I do wish the Arriva management, rather than simply just enhancing the frequency of one route, had been a little more imaginative when increasing capacity between Netherton and Bootle. When this change is implemented there will be no less than 13 buses per hour running along Gorsey lane/Sefton Road from the Cabbage Inn to the KFC/Tesco's junction. If, as seems the case, there is a demand for increased capacity why not provide a service through an area that is not currently served by Arriva since the withdrawal of the 59 last year?

One option could be the reintroduction of a 57/58 Netherton Circular which was withdrawn about three years ago. At the present time the 58 now terminates at the Magdalene Square. Would it not be a good idea to allow the 58 to continue along Glover's Lane, Fleetwood's Lane, Gorsey Lane, turn left onto Sterrix Lane, Boundary Lane, turn right onto Church Road to the KFC/Tesco's junction and then left onto Hawthorne Road towards Bootle/Liverpool? The 57 could do the reverse of this route. This option would increase the capacity between Netherton and Bootle and provide a service that is needed along Church Road.

My second point is to do with the late Saturday start of the 52/52A. At the moment the first 52 from Netherton is 7.46 which seems totally inadequate to me. The only alternative between the Cabbage and Tesco's - a distance of 1.7 miles - is a 55. Admittedly the first 55 leaves the Old Roan at 4.50, but between 6.20 and 7.00 there is a break in service. On several occasions in the past year, I have seen many people waiting at many of the bus stops along this section through Ford and Litherland to the extent that the bus is full by the time it gets to the KFC/Tesco's junction. This could easily be rectified by starting the 52/52A an hour earlier on a Saturday.

I look forward to reading any responses.

[X782 NWX]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
Changes to the 311 345 and 350 are explained on the arriva website

They state:

From Sunday 16 February 2014, the following changes will be made.

Service 311 - Liverpool to Skelmersdale via Maghull & Ormskirk
One journey per hour will be re-numbered 310, in Maghull the service will operate via Eastway, Dodds Lane and Kenyons Lane (replacing service 350) then to Ormskirk via Holborn Hill and continue to Skelmersdale.
Journeys on service 311 will operate in Maghull via Southport Road to Lydiate then Moss Lane and to Ormskirk via Town Green and continue to Skelmersdale.
Both services will be revised to depart from Queen Square in Liverpool and will no longer call into the ASDA in Skelmersdale.

Service 345 - Liverpool to Waddicar
Timetable revised, journeys will now depart from Queen Square in Liverpool not Sir Thomas Street

Service 350 - Liverpool to Maghull
Service is withdrawn, partly replaced by service 310. Ashworth Hospital will no longer be served.

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/content.aspx?id=34359741663

[Barney]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
Without wishing to seem slightly unhinged I thought I might respond to my own previous post. The new timetable for the 52/52A is now available on the Arriva website and I am pleased to note that not only has the daytime frequency been enhanced, but the start times of these services Monday-Saturday from both termini has been brought forward by between 45-50 minutes. The first Mon-Fri 52A from Netherton now departs at 6.00 and the first Saturday departure is at 7.06. No change to the Sunday timetable. Well done Arriva.

I still think there is a case for some journeys from Netherton to operate via Sterrix Lane, Church Road, Bootle Strand to Liverpool but you can't have everything you want, I suppose.

[mathias]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot

(12/01/2014 13:21)Barney Wrote:  If, as seems the case, there is a demand for increased capacity why not provide a service through an area that is not currently served by Arriva since the withdrawal of the 59 last year?

One option could be the reintroduction of a 57/58 Netherton Circular which was withdrawn about three years ago.

My second point is to do with the late Saturday start of the 52/52A. At the moment the first 52 from Netherton is 7.46 which seems totally inadequate to me. This could easily be rectified by starting the 52/52A an hour earlier on a Saturday.

I look forward to reading any responses.

Arriva made a BIG mistake by re-numbering the old 61A route to the 59, then changing the timetable and the route along Knowsley Road, Bootle.
One driver told me it had become unsustainable due to it losing £1000 a month.

This is why messing around with a proven formula is always risky, because there's a strong possibility you'll end up confusing passengers with unknown numbers and routes. The 59 failed due to Arriva's lack of foresight. For such a professional company to do is -quite frankly- shocking.

This explains why a 57/58 route may not work. Passengers shun the unknown. Even the current Arriva 58 route makes a very small profit, which is why tired, elderly Darts usually appear on it. Why invest in a loser??

As for the relatively late start of the 52/52A on a Saturday, it's cash fares that dictate viability, and if Bootle-bound office workers aren't working on Saturday mornings, then all those lovely Dayriders and Weekly Tickets ain't gonna be sold (OAP passes don't make a service profitable).
Even so, it's nice that the frequency is increasing as it proves the 52/52A route is a (cash-rich) jewel in the depot's crown, and Peoplesbus have had a slice of the action for the last few years. In fact, I'm surprised Stagecoach haven't decided to cherrypick it!
Then again, -knowing Merseytravel- they'd probably turn it into yet another QBP route!

[M113 YKC]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
Just looking at the new 310/311 timetable...
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles...010114.pdf

The times are really inconsistent across the board. Whilst, understandably, there will be two separate routes (those being the 310 and the 311), there will also be two different 311 routes on weekday mornings as some journeys will travel via Holborn Hill (omiting Town Green) and Lydiate! Confusing or what...

Without commenting too much (in fear of going around in circles), it'll be very interesting to see if this works or not. However, having looked at the timetable (and what a mess it is!), my opinion still stands that changing a service that was doing okay (311) around a service which evidently wasn't (350) was always going to be a ridiculous decision.

[Busser]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot
In my opinion the 311 never should of extended to Skelmersdale as it takes way too long. Skem should have a direct service to Liverpool. They should cut the 310/311 to Ormskirk - Liverpool only and and replace the Skem section of the 310/311 with the 312.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot

(13/01/2014 18:42)Busser Wrote:  In my opinion the 311 never should of extended to Skelmersdale as it takes way too long. Skem should have a direct service to Liverpool. They should cut the 310/311 to Ormskirk - Liverpool only and and replace the Skem section of the 310/311 with the 312.

Just be happy the 311 no longer serves Preston.

[Busser]

RE: Arriva North West - Bootle Depot

(13/01/2014 20:04)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  

(13/01/2014 18:42)Busser Wrote:  In my opinion the 311 never should of extended to Skelmersdale as it takes way too long. Skem should have a direct service to Liverpool. They should cut the 310/311 to Ormskirk - Liverpool only and and replace the Skem section of the 310/311 with the 312.

Just be happy the 311 no longer serves Preston.

Or Wigan in a way. Used to remember travelling on the 395 and seeing the driver change the roller blinds to a 311 before reaching Ormskirk bus station