Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
Which would everybody prefer Status Quo or Re-regulation of some sort .

Do you think that the major players have become to big for there boots or is it the Mayor who wants to always keep his name in the news . The present Mayor will be in office till he decides to step down as I can not envision anybody else being able to beat him in office unless he makes a pigs ear of something.

[MPTE1955]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
I would rather leave it as it rather than let Anderson anywhere near it.

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
Would Stagecoach do what they threatened to do on Tyneside and pull the plug on there Merseyside operations if these proposals came in .

Would we get to the situation like in London though where there would be a continuous merry go round of routes passing between operators , another thing also would this mean the end of a multitude of bus colours and one standard livery being adopted for operations.

[Mayneway]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(30/10/2014 19:08)wirralbus Wrote:  Which would everybody prefer Status Quo or Re-regulation of some sort .

Do you think that the major players have become to big for there boots or is it the Mayor who wants to always keep his name in the news . The present Mayor will be in office till he decides to step down as I can not envision anybody else being able to beat him in office unless he makes a pigs ear of something.

I think it's a bit of both really. Mr Anderson does seem far too fame hungry but yes the larger operators have in my opinion been allowed to grow too big. Stagecoach for one, in Manchester anyway, has swallowed up a number of small and medium sized operators and you have the situation bow where cetain areas such as East Manchester that once had a healthy selection of operators now firmly under Stagecoach's grip.
I carnt really comment on the for or against de-reg argument as I'm too young but wasn't the purpose of it to bring more compititon into the industry? In some areas it's gone full circle and it's all but under one operators control.

As for the politicians, well just look at the fiasco over the crime commissioner in South Yorkshire. I don't see how changing things from how they are now would improve things. The politicians and those those associated have allowed the once local companies to get eaten up by the big boys and suddenly thier wanting a bit back??

[Bevan Price]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
Services in St. Helens were best (although not perfect) when they were run by St. Helens Corporation, and it is a pity that they are not still run by them. When they were forced into Merseyside, and Merseybus, the immediate effect was to increase fares to "Liverpool" levels, with no improvement in services. Since deregulation, many services have got worse. Near where I live, the last bus from St. Helens was about 23:25 - it is now 17:50 (Service 37). Sunday & Bank Holiday services have disappeared. Frequencies have declined steadily, and for those without passes, fares have increases much faster than inflation.

Journey times have worsened, although that is due to councils rather than the bus companies, with menaces such as road humps, far too many traffic lights, etc.

Whilst I would like a return to the pre-1974 status, the thought of Mayor Anderson & Liverpool Council running everything seems a potential nightmare to me. (And I dread the possibility of him governing St. Helens via a Liverpool Regional Council)

[H101GEV (Administrator)]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(29/10/2014 21:50)kuyoyo Wrote:  Basically, what the councils and PTEs need to do is look at their colleagues in South Yorkshire and the award-winning Sheffield Partnership scheme. Operations take most of the cost for operating services (still a small number of contracted services but these are mainly operated by either TM Travel or Sheffield Community Transport) while the PTE do the timetables and spend money on infrastructure work. All changes are consulted on in a fair and equal way. This is the way places should be going - and indeed here in the southern part of the North East, we are on the way to that.

This contrasts nicely with Merseytravel's botched "Quality" Bus Partnership routes, where frequencies on every corridor were reduced and overcrowding exacerbated. Ticketing is still not fully interchangeable between operators meaning large numbers of passengers have to commit to one operator and thus endure the less frequent buses as a result. Competition has been cooled to the detriment of passengers: on the 86 corridor, overcrowding is far worse since the QBP was introduced. Stagecoach's woeful run of ordering undersized buses is not helping as well.

Just imagine that lot getting overall control of the buses. Disaster waiting to happen. I'm not praising the status quo, either - Merseyside's buses have stagnated significantly since MPTE was bought out - but with signs of capacity improvements on the horizon and considering Merseytravel's track record on these matters, the status quo can't be any worse.

[H101GEV (Administrator)]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run

(31/10/2014 16:46)Dentonian Wrote:  I'm a bit confused with this long-standing argument - usually from the "Competition is always good" campaign. You can't have full competition and integrated ticketing!

I'm not sure if you're accusing me specifically of making that argument or not, but I haven't. The point is the so-called "QBP" was to effectively dilute competition with the benefit of fully integrated ticketing, but of course that's not the case. Several ticketing types are not transferable between operators and then there's the fact you can't use for example a Stagecoach day ticket to travel beyond Garston on the 86A. So in short, this 'benefit' is fundamentally flawed.

[enrag2000]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
STAGECOACH STATEMENT IN RESPONSE TO LABOUR PARTY ANNOUNCEMENT ON PLANS FOR BUS SERVICES IN ENGLISH REGIONS

31 Oct 2014

Martin Griffiths, Stagecoach Group Chief Executive, said: "This uncosted and unnecessary plan would land people in England's biggest city regions overnight with a tax bill running to hundreds of millions of pounds, as well as leading to higher bus fares.

"Britain's bus operators provide extensive, integrated and high quality bus networks which are central to regional economies and local communities in England's biggest city regions.

"It is time politicians stopped peddling the myth that London is best and has a monopoly on good bus services. The truth is that England’s city regions have significantly lower fares and higher customer satisfaction than London, as well as having access to frequent, integrated bus services and smart ticketing. This is despite many environmental factors – such as high population growth, low car ownership, congestion charging and significantly higher per capita public funding – which have all been advantageous to London.

"Stagecoach and other major operators are already working on extensive plans to deliver better buses and stronger city regions. Our plans will provide even better transport integration, more local political engagement and a greater voice for customers. At the same time, they will offer even better taxpayer value.

"To make that happen, we need supportive central and local government policies that make a practical difference for bus passengers, rather than talk about costly and unnecessary structural change."

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
If London is not as great as Stagecoach say, why are they in that city? Sounds to me like they are throwing their toys out of the pram. Talk about defence of their commercial interests.

[wirralbus]

RE: Talks of Liverpools bus network being "council" run
Notice how Arriva have kept very quiet in this debate about reregulation of the buses.

Arriva if they wanted to could put a massive spanner in the works here on Merseyside , there just letting Stagecoach give the operators opinion as they to all intents any purposes are the smaller of the major operators here .

I do wonder what First Bus opinion is on reregulation as Manchester could be a minefield if Greater Manchester went down that line .